6 ms·

For me the benefits far outweigh the increased wear on the engine. I don't really need my engine to last 400k miles like it can in perfect circumstances. I ne

For me the benefits far outweigh the increased wear on the engine. I don't really need my engine to last 400k miles like it can in perfect circumstances. I need fog free windows, be comfortable driving the car without gloves on making the steering slip. To be able to focus on getting around and not shivering. I don't drive these days but back when I did those were all issues I had for my 5am start getting to work. And far more a concern to me than the engine losing some longevity (which I could make up for just by proper care few people do anyways).

godelski 4y ago
> I need fog free windows Personally I can't drive with ice on my windows. Can't really see outside and I'm pretty confident that's illegal. Like 80%, but I'm not a lawyer.
- eastbound 4y ago
  100%: Driver must keep the car in state of driving - or something like that - It includes everything.
- Turing_Machine 4y ago
  You will definitely get a ticket here if a cop sees you driving with windows iced or fogged up (which you should... it's a serious hazard to you, other drivers, and pedestrians).
- postalrat 4y ago
  Unless you have been driving for 2 hours you will probably have some ice on your windows some days here in MN.
- bluGill 4y ago
  On most mornings my windows will fog on the side I just cleared before I can get the other side clear. I clean my windows, and then a couple miles down the road they clear up, otherwise it's will be a while before they are clear.
doubled112 4y ago
Agreed. Crashing because windows fogged up again is also detrimental to the engine's lifespan.
ajross 4y ago
I don't want to be That Guy[1], but an EV can run the climate control, warm the car and defrost the windows with absolutely no maintenance worries at all. Teslas can do it remotely while you sip your coffee or pack up your ski gear. [1] I totally want to be That Guy
- mise_en_place 4y ago
  The cold still damages your EV’s battery. It is still, after all, a lithium ion battery.
  - voisin 4y ago
    The battery is heated to avoid that damage though. Nothing does this in an ICE car.
    - sebastien_b 4y ago
      Some ICE cars have block heaters for this similar purpose.
    - foepys 4y ago
      While true, how long can the car heat the batteries before it's practically unusable because the battery has depleted so much you need to charge it again before driving to work? Not everybody has a charging port at home, especially in Europe.
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        Since you likely have it plugged in while it’s at home. Perpetually.
        cuu508 4y ago
        What is the approx. power draw when the car is plugged in, fully charged, and the ambient temperature is around freezing?
FooBarWidget 4y ago
Interesting that you think about it that way. My primary goals are the opposite: 1. To save as much money as possible. Meaning to make my car last as long as possible, postponing the need for repairs or a new car as long as possible 2. To reduce energy usage as much as possible. Not only to save money but also because it's good for the environment. Which means I do exactly the opposite of yours. I'll to go great lengths to avoid turning on the car's heater. So I put on thicker clothes, I dry foggy windows with a towel, within the city I drive electric as much as possible (I have a hybrid), etc. I brake as little and as smoothly as possible to avoid kinectic energy being lost to braking (or if I do need to brake, at least have renegerative breaking recover 60%). All of this much to the chagrin of my wife who doesn't value such things at all. Or the guy behind me who's annoyed at the fact that I stop maintaining speed 100 meters away from the red light, instead of maintaining speed until 20 meters away and then braking in 2s. I have the feeling that people like me are rare. It seems that when it comes to cars, nobody around me cares about saving money or saving the environment, they mainly care about comfort.
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  > I'll to go great lengths to avoid turning on the car's heater. You know, heat is a byproduct of the combustion process… —edit— And these people who won’t turn on the AC to save gas end up messing up the aerodynamics and making the vehicle less efficient while also suffering.
  - FooBarWidget 4y ago
    Yes so? I'd rather want that 30% energy to be converted to kinetic energy, than 0% energy being converted. What's the point of using a car as an immobile heater? I'll turn on the heater once I'm on the highway, not before.
- brookside 4y ago
  Are you aware not using the heater does not affect fuel efficiency in an ICE car? Heaters in ICE cars take the pull existing heat from the engine. (I'm not aware of how your hybrid is programmed, it may or may not turn the engine on sooner if the heat is on.) Letting off the gas 100 meters before a stop light and coast that will save gas, but of course it won't be more efficient to brake for the 100 meters before a stop sign, except for regen, as you mention. And is indeed obnoxious for other drivers if you are braking way before a sign. Hypermiling is a good idea, but it's a trap to to slip into an orthorexia-type mindset about efficiency - imbuing virtue into deprivation. Going to "great lengths" to not turn on your car's heater, in addition to being 100% pointless if your ICE engine is running, is an asshole move if other people are in the car. I think it's worth it to fight the feelings of superiority you allude to in your last sentence. I say all of this as somebody who thinks 95% of drivers would be best served by a Prius or Leaf.
raverbashing 4y ago
Exactly I love how some people get precious about cars and engines, something like "if you idle it for too long you're shortening its lifespan" and even if it's moderately true my answer would be "Yeah, so what? It's a clunky block of 19th century technology, who cares?" Yeah sure, you don't need it to sit idle for something like 30 min, just wait for it to get a bit warm then drive away. Worrying about this will cost me more than not worrying.
BeetleB 4y ago
> I need fog free windows You don't need to warm the engine much to get that. It will clear up even with cold wind blowing on it. https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3174/which-is-better-defog-a-car-windshield-with-cold-or-hot-air https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3174/which-i...
- danaris 4y ago
  That specifically talks about using the AC, because it's dehumidified air. The AC also requires the engine to be running, so blasting the windshield with hot air or air-conditioned air will require running the engine for roughly the same amount of time.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    I don't know about your car, but it takes less than a minute to defog my windows. I don't think anyone is claiming that running the engine for a minute is bad.
    - theGnuMe 4y ago
      Try ice on the inside of your windows.
    - gnomewrecker 4y ago
      It was -15 degrees F the other morning and the inside of my windshield was ice. It took far longer than a minute to clear. Also took far longer than a minute to reach a tolerable temperature, even in decent garb!
    - danaris 4y ago
      Yeah; this is going to depend heavily on local conditions.

godelski 4y ago

> I need fog free windows Personally I can't drive with ice on my windows. Can't really see outside and I'm pretty confident that's illegal. Like 80%, but I'm not a lawyer.

eastbound 4y ago
100%: Driver must keep the car in state of driving - or something like that - It includes everything.
Turing_Machine 4y ago
You will definitely get a ticket here if a cop sees you driving with windows iced or fogged up (which you should... it's a serious hazard to you, other drivers, and pedestrians).
postalrat 4y ago
Unless you have been driving for 2 hours you will probably have some ice on your windows some days here in MN.
bluGill 4y ago
On most mornings my windows will fog on the side I just cleared before I can get the other side clear. I clean my windows, and then a couple miles down the road they clear up, otherwise it's will be a while before they are clear.

doubled112 4y ago

Agreed. Crashing because windows fogged up again is also detrimental to the engine's lifespan.

ajross 4y ago

I don't want to be That Guy[1], but an EV can run the climate control, warm the car and defrost the windows with absolutely no maintenance worries at all. Teslas can do it remotely while you sip your coffee or pack up your ski gear. [1] I totally want to be That Guy

mise_en_place 4y ago
The cold still damages your EV’s battery. It is still, after all, a lithium ion battery.
- voisin 4y ago
  The battery is heated to avoid that damage though. Nothing does this in an ICE car.
  - sebastien_b 4y ago
    Some ICE cars have block heaters for this similar purpose.
  - foepys 4y ago
    While true, how long can the car heat the batteries before it's practically unusable because the battery has depleted so much you need to charge it again before driving to work? Not everybody has a charging port at home, especially in Europe.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      Since you likely have it plugged in while it’s at home. Perpetually.
      - cuu508 4y ago
        What is the approx. power draw when the car is plugged in, fully charged, and the ambient temperature is around freezing?

FooBarWidget 4y ago

Interesting that you think about it that way. My primary goals are the opposite: 1. To save as much money as possible. Meaning to make my car last as long as possible, postponing the need for repairs or a new car as long as possible 2. To reduce energy usage as much as possible. Not only to save money but also because it's good for the environment. Which means I do exactly the opposite of yours. I'll to go great lengths to avoid turning on the car's heater. So I put on thicker clothes, I dry foggy windows with a towel, within the city I drive electric as much as possible (I have a hybrid), etc. I brake as little and as smoothly as possible to avoid kinectic energy being lost to braking (or if I do need to brake, at least have renegerative breaking recover 60%). All of this much to the chagrin of my wife who doesn't value such things at all. Or the guy behind me who's annoyed at the fact that I stop maintaining speed 100 meters away from the red light, instead of maintaining speed until 20 meters away and then braking in 2s. I have the feeling that people like me are rare. It seems that when it comes to cars, nobody around me cares about saving money or saving the environment, they mainly care about comfort.

UncleEntity 4y ago
> I'll to go great lengths to avoid turning on the car's heater. You know, heat is a byproduct of the combustion process… —edit— And these people who won’t turn on the AC to save gas end up messing up the aerodynamics and making the vehicle less efficient while also suffering.
- FooBarWidget 4y ago
  Yes so? I'd rather want that 30% energy to be converted to kinetic energy, than 0% energy being converted. What's the point of using a car as an immobile heater? I'll turn on the heater once I'm on the highway, not before.
brookside 4y ago
Are you aware not using the heater does not affect fuel efficiency in an ICE car? Heaters in ICE cars take the pull existing heat from the engine. (I'm not aware of how your hybrid is programmed, it may or may not turn the engine on sooner if the heat is on.) Letting off the gas 100 meters before a stop light and coast that will save gas, but of course it won't be more efficient to brake for the 100 meters before a stop sign, except for regen, as you mention. And is indeed obnoxious for other drivers if you are braking way before a sign. Hypermiling is a good idea, but it's a trap to to slip into an orthorexia-type mindset about efficiency - imbuing virtue into deprivation. Going to "great lengths" to not turn on your car's heater, in addition to being 100% pointless if your ICE engine is running, is an asshole move if other people are in the car. I think it's worth it to fight the feelings of superiority you allude to in your last sentence. I say all of this as somebody who thinks 95% of drivers would be best served by a Prius or Leaf.

raverbashing 4y ago

Exactly I love how some people get precious about cars and engines, something like "if you idle it for too long you're shortening its lifespan" and even if it's moderately true my answer would be "Yeah, so what? It's a clunky block of 19th century technology, who cares?" Yeah sure, you don't need it to sit idle for something like 30 min, just wait for it to get a bit warm then drive away. Worrying about this will cost me more than not worrying.

BeetleB 4y ago

> I need fog free windows You don't need to warm the engine much to get that. It will clear up even with cold wind blowing on it. https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3174/which-is-better-defog-a-car-windshield-with-cold-or-hot-air https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3174/which-i...

danaris 4y ago
That specifically talks about using the AC, because it's dehumidified air. The AC also requires the engine to be running, so blasting the windshield with hot air or air-conditioned air will require running the engine for roughly the same amount of time.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  I don't know about your car, but it takes less than a minute to defog my windows. I don't think anyone is claiming that running the engine for a minute is bad.
  - theGnuMe 4y ago
    Try ice on the inside of your windows.
  - gnomewrecker 4y ago
    It was -15 degrees F the other morning and the inside of my windshield was ice. It took far longer than a minute to clear. Also took far longer than a minute to reach a tolerable temperature, even in decent garb!
  - danaris 4y ago
    Yeah; this is going to depend heavily on local conditions.