5 ms·

It seems to me that very wealthy people hoard money like dragons. Congresspeople generally aren’t very wealthy. Instead it seems like prostitution is a better

It seems to me that very wealthy people hoard money like dragons. Congresspeople generally aren’t very wealthy. Instead it seems like prostitution is a better analogy. Congresspeople quite often have their votes swayed for relatively small amounts of money. I’m being pedantic on the analogy because I think it’s important for people to have the right framing on a major problem with American politics. Namely, too much money going to campaigns and PACs influencing politicians. Congresspeople generally aren’t super rich. Your point about what goes on in your head still stands.

scotty79 4y ago
Congresspeople regularly outperform the market with their investment which is called "insider trading" and is forbidden for anyone else but them. I'm not saying that's the biggest issue with them, but that was what came to my mind first.
- geysersam 4y ago
  Maybe they're smarter and more knowledgeable than the average trader?
  - danaris 4y ago
    This doesn't pass the sniff test. There's nothing about being a Congressperson that lends itself better to the kinds of knowledge or intelligence that would increase the chances of betting well on the stock market... ...except the knowledge that comes from a) knowing what legislation will be ahead of time, and b) getting "paid" in insider knowledge from companies that want favorable treatment. (And possibly other kinds of insider-trading-type knowledge; I'm not particularly familiar with the specific methods they use.)
    - bardworx 4y ago
      Or they use a professional that routinely outperforms their specific benchmark.
    - geysersam 4y ago
      > There's nothing about being a Congressperson that lends itself better to the kinds of knowledge or intelligence that would increase the chances of betting well on the stock market How do you know that? Their outcomes indicate otherwise. They're clearly in some regards quite exceptional people.
      - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
        How do their exceptional investment insights fare after they leave Congress (and, for completeness, the Senate.)
        geysersam 4y ago
        I don't know. It'd be interesting to know. But I imagine there's less public information about their investments after their terms end, no? In any case. I'm not saying there is no insider trading going on in Congress. After all, there are hundreds of representatives. Of course some are greedy idiots, and some even criminals. But the majority, and I believe thats a large majority, are honest people who care about the people they represent.
      - danaris 4y ago
        > Their outcomes indicate otherwise. This is assuming the consequent. There are two possible explanations being proposed for the observed outcome "Congresspeople do better than average at the stock market." I am proposing the explanation "they are engaging in insider trading," and proposing evidence to support that. You are proposing the explanation "they're just better at it", and giving as evidence solely the outcome we are attempting to explain. It's circular.
        geysersam 4y ago
        Sure, we both lack evidence. However, my view is that people, even congresspeople, deserve the benefit of doubt.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      while I don't agree that they're better at trading, your response is clearly wrong here. A congress person is able to constantly make decisions with imperfect information and be successful doing it, one can imagine that skill could give them an edge when trading. But the reason I don't agree with it is because they're using 3rd part managers. It's far more likely that they're advising. However, the way to put this to bed is to compare their accounts with those of others being managed by the same team. do they out-perform, under-perform, or roughly match those other accounts? There's your answer.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    At glance making money at non-engineering is more correlated with sociopathy than above average intelligence...
- syzarian 4y ago
  I understand and agree that this is a great corruption but they don’t have Smaug levels of wealth and so your analogy fails. They are prostitutes that sell their votes/souls for money in order to influence outcomes.
- bardworx 4y ago
  Right…why is this nonsense becoming normalized? Congress folk are highly likely to have an investment professional managing their money, who usually outperform “the market” (whatever that means, considering most don’t benchmark S&P for obvious reasons). What I really don’t get is that most insider trades make less than 70k before going to jail and even with inside information, a large percentage of insider trades don’t make money (but you still go to jail). Yet folks think it’s some kind of cheat code. Folks need to stop reading WSB.
  - brookst 4y ago
    Are you under the impression that it is illegal for members of Congress to engage in insider trading, so therefore the absence of prosecution proves it is not a frequent occurrence? The laws are literally different for them: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/it-illegal-lawmakers-trade-stocks-insider-info-they-learn-job-n1165156 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/it-illegal-lawmake...
    - bardworx 4y ago
      It is illegal: https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ105/PLAW-112publ105.htm https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ105/PLAW-112publ105.h... SEC, that prosecutes insider trading, is a civil regulatory body and cannot send people to jail, which the article mentions for some odd reason. And I’d put the odds at 100:1 that any prosecutor in the SEC would love to go after a Congress person to further their career. Lastly, not sure most are aware, insider trading is usually spotted by SECs internal AI/algo that is connected to all brokers, clearing houses, etc. they are very good at finding folks. Edit: another thing that is missing from this discussion is the SEC awards a portion of the proceeds to the whistleblower of any case. I just can’t believe no one ratted out a Congress member for retirement money and all members are security masterminds.
- IIAOPSW 4y ago
  >Congresspeople regularly outperform the market with their investment which is called "insider trading" Have you considered the selection bias going on as an alternative explanation. Maybe the people with the competence and skills to get to Congress are just smarter than the average person with an investment account.
  - brookst 4y ago
    It’s a fair theory but given the long track record of proven insider trading, their connections to people with insider information, and their repeated refusal to enact prohibitions on insider trading (it is in fact perfectly legal, despite efforts to apply the same rules that everyone else plays by), I think there is a lot of evidence for systemic corruption and against “they’re just better investors”.
    - bardworx 4y ago
      By your theory, auditors should be put into jail on a much higher rate as they have WAY MORE insider information, yet they don’t. Also, there is a law prohibiting senators from trading on insider information, which kinda goes against your whole point. https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ105/PLAW-112publ105.htm https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ105/PLAW-112publ105.h...
      - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
        There are also laws against rape, murder, and jaywalking, yet they happen daily.
        bardworx 4y ago
        At first glance you seem to be comparing events that have to be witnessed vs database entries that are centralized, heavily audited, and very accurate. It’s a lot easier to match patterns in a db vs. real life crime.
        4y ago

scotty79 4y ago

Congresspeople regularly outperform the market with their investment which is called "insider trading" and is forbidden for anyone else but them. I'm not saying that's the biggest issue with them, but that was what came to my mind first.

geysersam 4y ago
Maybe they're smarter and more knowledgeable than the average trader?
- danaris 4y ago
  This doesn't pass the sniff test. There's nothing about being a Congressperson that lends itself better to the kinds of knowledge or intelligence that would increase the chances of betting well on the stock market... ...except the knowledge that comes from a) knowing what legislation will be ahead of time, and b) getting "paid" in insider knowledge from companies that want favorable treatment. (And possibly other kinds of insider-trading-type knowledge; I'm not particularly familiar with the specific methods they use.)
  - bardworx 4y ago
    Or they use a professional that routinely outperforms their specific benchmark.
  - geysersam 4y ago
    > There's nothing about being a Congressperson that lends itself better to the kinds of knowledge or intelligence that would increase the chances of betting well on the stock market How do you know that? Their outcomes indicate otherwise. They're clearly in some regards quite exceptional people.
    - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
      How do their exceptional investment insights fare after they leave Congress (and, for completeness, the Senate.)
      - geysersam 4y ago
        I don't know. It'd be interesting to know. But I imagine there's less public information about their investments after their terms end, no? In any case. I'm not saying there is no insider trading going on in Congress. After all, there are hundreds of representatives. Of course some are greedy idiots, and some even criminals. But the majority, and I believe thats a large majority, are honest people who care about the people they represent.
    - danaris 4y ago
      > Their outcomes indicate otherwise. This is assuming the consequent. There are two possible explanations being proposed for the observed outcome "Congresspeople do better than average at the stock market." I am proposing the explanation "they are engaging in insider trading," and proposing evidence to support that. You are proposing the explanation "they're just better at it", and giving as evidence solely the outcome we are attempting to explain. It's circular.
      - geysersam 4y ago
        Sure, we both lack evidence. However, my view is that people, even congresspeople, deserve the benefit of doubt.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    while I don't agree that they're better at trading, your response is clearly wrong here. A congress person is able to constantly make decisions with imperfect information and be successful doing it, one can imagine that skill could give them an edge when trading. But the reason I don't agree with it is because they're using 3rd part managers. It's far more likely that they're advising. However, the way to put this to bed is to compare their accounts with those of others being managed by the same team. do they out-perform, under-perform, or roughly match those other accounts? There's your answer.
- ilyt 4y ago
  At glance making money at non-engineering is more correlated with sociopathy than above average intelligence...
syzarian 4y ago
I understand and agree that this is a great corruption but they don’t have Smaug levels of wealth and so your analogy fails. They are prostitutes that sell their votes/souls for money in order to influence outcomes.
bardworx 4y ago
Right…why is this nonsense becoming normalized? Congress folk are highly likely to have an investment professional managing their money, who usually outperform “the market” (whatever that means, considering most don’t benchmark S&P for obvious reasons). What I really don’t get is that most insider trades make less than 70k before going to jail and even with inside information, a large percentage of insider trades don’t make money (but you still go to jail). Yet folks think it’s some kind of cheat code. Folks need to stop reading WSB.
- brookst 4y ago
  Are you under the impression that it is illegal for members of Congress to engage in insider trading, so therefore the absence of prosecution proves it is not a frequent occurrence? The laws are literally different for them: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/it-illegal-lawmakers-trade-stocks-insider-info-they-learn-job-n1165156 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/it-illegal-lawmake...
  - bardworx 4y ago
    It is illegal: https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ105/PLAW-112publ105.htm https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ105/PLAW-112publ105.h... SEC, that prosecutes insider trading, is a civil regulatory body and cannot send people to jail, which the article mentions for some odd reason. And I’d put the odds at 100:1 that any prosecutor in the SEC would love to go after a Congress person to further their career. Lastly, not sure most are aware, insider trading is usually spotted by SECs internal AI/algo that is connected to all brokers, clearing houses, etc. they are very good at finding folks. Edit: another thing that is missing from this discussion is the SEC awards a portion of the proceeds to the whistleblower of any case. I just can’t believe no one ratted out a Congress member for retirement money and all members are security masterminds.
IIAOPSW 4y ago
>Congresspeople regularly outperform the market with their investment which is called "insider trading" Have you considered the selection bias going on as an alternative explanation. Maybe the people with the competence and skills to get to Congress are just smarter than the average person with an investment account.
- brookst 4y ago
  It’s a fair theory but given the long track record of proven insider trading, their connections to people with insider information, and their repeated refusal to enact prohibitions on insider trading (it is in fact perfectly legal, despite efforts to apply the same rules that everyone else plays by), I think there is a lot of evidence for systemic corruption and against “they’re just better investors”.
  - bardworx 4y ago
    By your theory, auditors should be put into jail on a much higher rate as they have WAY MORE insider information, yet they don’t. Also, there is a law prohibiting senators from trading on insider information, which kinda goes against your whole point. https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ105/PLAW-112publ105.htm https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ105/PLAW-112publ105.h...
    - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
      There are also laws against rape, murder, and jaywalking, yet they happen daily.
      - bardworx 4y ago
        At first glance you seem to be comparing events that have to be witnessed vs database entries that are centralized, heavily audited, and very accurate. It’s a lot easier to match patterns in a db vs. real life crime.
        4y ago