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Ask HN: Disappearing Comments?

• DayDollar 4y ago
  There are name cleaning bots that downvote mentions of scandals of rich persons.. they can make a whole thread dissappear.
  • sph 4y ago
    Didn't you know that dang is paid by the deep state? /s, since sarcasm on the internet is dead, and someone is bound to take this at face value. smdh
  • dang 4y ago
    I'd like to see some links to possible cases of this. Bots should definitely not be having that effect on HN, and if it turned out they actually are, we would instantly prioritize working on it.
• yamrzou 4y ago
  Could you link to the thread? It is possible that the comment you were responding to was marked as [dead], and that you have "showdead: no" in your profile.
  • walnutclosefarm 4y ago
    Done, in the text.
    • yamrzou 4y ago
      Is it this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34118393 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34118393 ? It's flagged, but I can still see the comment and your response. The other comment is the one by dang, and it's simply folded.
• oh_my_goodness 4y ago
  It's possible the person you were responding to deleted his/her comment, isolating your response.
  • aliqot 4y ago
    cant delete if someone has replied
• aliqot 4y ago
  deserved or not, there is shadowbanning in effect on hn. If you disagree with people enough, you'll end up on the list for offering counterpoints. often it takes bravery to disagree with the crowd, and often only those who are most passionate have the guts to disagree. The funning thing about HN is, we're all typing with our pinkies out, so you can disagree but if you dont do it with the utmost literary elegance and most bulletproof logic, it doesn't matter how right you were. Instead, what matters is that for a moment you stepped outside the parameters of gentility and your comments will be held for further review... forever. Bravery and fact are not always intertwined, but you will nonetheless pay the price for your bravery. Don't be brave here unless you're confident in your abilities of presenting a point covertly.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • walnutclosefarm 4y ago
    It was very mild stuff. Even if HN is shadowbanning, as you say, I can't imagine the comments in question drawing that action.
    • tekla 4y ago
      HN admins have a very very VERY short fuse
      • aliqot 4y ago
        Also regardless what people say votes ARE being bot manipulated if you criticize the right power-posters. There's a list so far of a small handful of people, with an associated range of downvotes that will be incurred all at once as soon as the author notices. Initially I thought I was thinking too highly of myself, but when a 30 minute pause happens in someone's post history, and then shortly after their scathing rebuttal graces my reply the predicted downvotes arrive in short fashion within a small window of time. I saw it, I suspected it, I tested it. It's pointless to report 'thought leaders', without them here, and without their patronage of YC, a lot of followers would just follow them where they go. I would not be surprised if some of these 'power posters' have been given light moderation privileges.
• paul7986 4y ago
  I believe my account could potentially be shadow-banned (comments are pushed to the bottom always) due to a few years back i talked incessantly about the time Google invited me to demo technology of mine and they were pretty awful. Of course that's just my word yet when another HN member met the same people at Google ATAP and they patented her work without her consent then got caught with email evidence I did talk incessantly about it. Eventually I was told by an admin here I need to chill / move on which I have and haven't talked about it in a two years or so. Overall I just wanted to alert others that tech companies even ones who inspired you are not to be trusted. Demand tons of money if and when you get an invite!
  • Crosseye_Jack 4y ago
    I see you comment near the top
  • kodah 4y ago
    Shadow banning on HN follows a visible pattern. They'll be marked dead automatically and someone will have to vouch your post. If they just float to the bottom with a small number or no upvotes, nobody found your post interesting.
  • georgemcbay 4y ago
    I can see your post and I'm just some random logged-in user so you're probably fine on the shadowbanning front. AFAICT a lot of posters here are pretty skeptical of contemporary google for all sorts of reasons. I know I am, and my job these days is primarily Android app development. The days of "Don't be Evil" are long over literally and figuratively. I'm sure there are lots of fine people working at Google, but its a giant company that exists primarily to stuff ads in your face at the highest rate you will tolerate and collect data on you for the same purpose so its not too surprising that there's going to be some ethically dubious goings-on as well and even when you get past that its hard to root for a company that has such a long history of taking well-regarded projects, developed either internally or acquired, and just unceremoniously killing them off right after you start to depend on them. I have no knowledge of the incident you're talking about but I suspect whatever warning you got was more to do with talking "incessantly" (your words) about the specific issue rather than the issue itself. At a certain point even completely valid complaining can come off as spamming if you force-inject it into any semi-related topic, though I also understand wanting to shout from the rafters when you feel like you've been personally wronged by a large, well-known entity.
• theCrowing 4y ago
  Dang probably deleted it after he reprimanded you in the thread... why not ask him?
  • walnutclosefarm 4y ago
    Because I have no idea who he or she was. The comment is deleted, and I can't remember the handle that posted it.
    • Kiro 4y ago
      The comments are still there. "dang" is a user and the admin of this site. Maybe you're missing it because the subthread has been collapsed? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34119476 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34119476
      • walnutclosefarm 4y ago
        Thanks. It was indeed folded. My ignorance is showing, I guess.
        • Kiro 4y ago
          It is however interesting that the subthread has been folded. It normally only happens to comments after they have been flagged or downvoted enough but here it looks like dang forced it upon himself (I guess because he misread your comment).
          • aliqot 4y ago
            > t normally only happens to comments after they have been flagged or downvoted Incorrect, this has happened to me before and while being up about 10 points and not flagged I still got folded. I am perceiving a change in HN moderation, like Dang's starting to act different since the site's been growing, and I noticed particularly when he's on late at night, HN behaves a little differently. I haven't devised a test for this particular late-night hypothesis, but you see the behavior enough times and you start to wonder, maybe I should be testing this.
• nkurz 4y ago
  I don't think it's normal or common for comments to disappear completely unless the posting user deletes them before there is a response. Sometimes they are marked [dead], and you can see them if you set "showdead: yes" in your profile (click on your login in the upper right to access). And sometimes threads of comments are "folded", and can only be viewed if you click the "X more" link to the right of the header. But I don't think they are usually removed completely. I'm guessing you are referring to your comments in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34116509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34116509? If so, the comments you are looking for are probably under the two "folded" threads at the bottom.
  • walnutclosefarm 4y ago
    Got it. Allow me to express just how dumb I feel for having not figured that out.
    • sph 4y ago
      Feel free to EDIT this text post to let everybody know there is no weird conspiracy, but the moderators can collapse off topic comment trees, so they don't pollute the comments page unless someone really wants to read them. Which is a great idea in my opinion.
• stefantalpalaru 4y ago
  [dead]
• bobleeswagger 4y ago
  I've been told it's the culture and to get used to it. If you get flagged by the echo chamber, good luck.
• _8j50 4y ago
  I made a comment few weeks ago that was made with good intent bit criticized how the west and western companies look and treat non-western and non-democratic countries and undermine their sovreignity. My HN posting habbits have not changed, used HN for 5yrs+ but right after that point I will spend a long time composing a comment and the get "you're posting too fast" throttling my post rate and a few other "shadow" limits I noticed. I would have maybe 30min for HN and other sites like this so I would read comments/posts and maybe reply 3-4 posts in ~1-2h window (30min spread over that time), nothing changed on my end and I am not spamming anyone. I may say things that sound offensive but unless you assume I am commenting in bad faith, I take care to post something valuable and relevant that won't ruffle anyone's feathers too much. Who knows, I hate shadow moderation but I have no proof there is one on HN either other than circumstantial stuff like this and for what reason? Is it over a misunderstanding? Something I can correct? I never been much of a joiner so it isn't just HN, everywhere I go I disagree with everyone that holds on strongly to any bubble or hive mind, I don't think that can be avoidee if you pursue truth with sincerity and apply critical thinking. But I also know it isn't just what you say but how you say it that matters, so I am confused a bit. I have seen deleted comments long after the edit time expires just not on my own to answer your question. All this said though, this a YC site with a specific audience and goals not a general purpose social media so I understand having to accept more moderation especially given the resource constraints of the moderators. Just glad I didn't get banned I guess? Enjoy the holidays.
  • petodo 4y ago
    You can create new account without email or any other verification, so it's not really that big deal if your account was completely banned (worst case you will lose your favorites and upvotes history). You will just lose downvoting feature until you reach again 500 karma I think, which I don't care about anyway, personally I'd find site better, if there was no downvote feature at all for everyone and all comments were visible and distinguished only by number of upvotes. Btw I agree there should be very clear information about comment/post time limits, because it feels they are not applied equally to everyone and you can't really respond even to people responding to you. Then it seems like you can't provide arguments, while the reality is you are time limited while other people keep discussing about what you said. It would be better if these time limits didn't apply at least in your own reply thread where you are parent, only in other parents so you can't spam others. But honestly I don't have problem with time limits if they were transparently communicated. I had to create new account since my account was brigaded or destroyed by bots, no matter what I posted pretty much everything receiving (insta)downvotes (sometimes within seconds), no such problems with new account (so much for this being conspiracy in my head).
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]