6 ms·

lmao @ UBI I can't understand how educated people can still gobble ubi propaganda up when it's proven that such model is completely unsustainable economically

lmao @ UBI I can't understand how educated people can still gobble ubi propaganda up when it's proven that such model is completely unsustainable economically and socially

Karsteski 4y ago
How has it been proven?
sofixa 4y ago
> when it's proven that such model is completely unsustainable economically and socially How exactly has it been proven? That's a very strong word to use for something that has never been tried on anything but very small scale limited pilots.
- rvba 4y ago
  It hasnt been proven but those who live in Europe see families that get: -free housing -free money -money for children (that they use for themselves) -various other help (clothes, coal, christmas packages) This had an unfortunate effect of creating a group of people who never worked and all they did was raise 3-5 children. Despite the parents not working (so having time to take care of their children) those children did not really get any education, often did not even finish high school. And guess what those children often got their own set of children early - who also will never work, live of social benefits and small time theft. You dont exactly have to be a right winger to notice that the model is not sustainable. Especially as this group of people only demands more and they think that they "deserve" it. Also if you would try to teach the children that everyone should contribute to society by working, their parents/grandparents/even grand grandparents will protest. Since they lived this "parasite" lives forever and dont know better. How can someone demand that they work? They deserve higher social benefits and they deserve better housing. (While you are supposed to get a mortgage and slave to get a house). Also at some point the group will become so big that they can vote for politicians that will give them more (at the expense of those who work). Of course perhaps maybe UBI can work and it will be all rosy, but it is just wishful thinking. Communism was also supposed to work. Different problem with UBI is that middle class becomes nobodies - you are supposed to shut up because you get your dole. While I bet the rich people will still be rich.
  - defrost 4y ago
    Interesting opinion, nothing that meshes with the actual largely indeterminate results of the Finish experiment [1] [2] [3] nor with the bulk of the other small scale examples [4]. Countries such as Australia with robust (compared to the US) welfare safety nets (not perfect by any means, but not to shabby overall) have proven to have strong long term GDP growth and to be resilient in the face of various global crisis events. Good safety nets provide a place to regroup and do better - without being reduced to homeless and struggling to meet basic food and clothing needs. [1] https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/161361 https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/161361 [2] https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector... [3] https://www.bruegel.org/blog-post/universal-basic-income-and-finnish-experiment https://www.bruegel.org/blog-post/universal-basic-income-and... [4] https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/19/21112570/universal-basic-income-ubi-map https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/19/21112570/univer...
    - argentinian 4y ago
      You should check Argentina's example too.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > This had an unfortunate effect of creating a group of people who never worked and all they did was raise 3-5 children. You dont seem to be aware that such programs are designed to have people raise such 5-6 children while doing nothing else in order to bump up the declining population. And if you think raising 6 children is not work... boy...
    - Glawen 4y ago
      I believe these program exist in the sole purpose of reducing criminality, so that the poor don't start thinking of robberies.
      - unity1001 4y ago
rrgok 4y ago
I'm not 100% pro UBI. But do you feel the current model/system is sustainable?
gptadmirer 4y ago
Because The educated is synonymous for woke politics bullshit these days. They got knowledge but they lack wisdom. They got their privilege living in safe 1st world environments but they forgot true human nature that 3rd worlders see daily.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > true human nature that 3rd worlders see daily. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=scientists-probe-human-nature-and-discover-we-are-good-after-all http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=scientists-... That's the objectively proven human nature. Not the randian nonsense. And that's what 3rd worlders see every day.
  - gptadmirer 4y ago
    [flagged]
unity1001 4y ago
> when it's proven Don't invent false realities. Nobody proved nothing as such. The Finnish experiment and others showed that there is no relation in between ubi and unemployment.

lmao @ UBI I can't understand how educated people can still gobble ubi propaganda up when it's proven that such model is completely unsustainable economically and socially

Karsteski 4y ago

How has it been proven?

sofixa 4y ago

> when it's proven that such model is completely unsustainable economically and socially How exactly has it been proven? That's a very strong word to use for something that has never been tried on anything but very small scale limited pilots.

rvba 4y ago
It hasnt been proven but those who live in Europe see families that get: -free housing -free money -money for children (that they use for themselves) -various other help (clothes, coal, christmas packages) This had an unfortunate effect of creating a group of people who never worked and all they did was raise 3-5 children. Despite the parents not working (so having time to take care of their children) those children did not really get any education, often did not even finish high school. And guess what those children often got their own set of children early - who also will never work, live of social benefits and small time theft. You dont exactly have to be a right winger to notice that the model is not sustainable. Especially as this group of people only demands more and they think that they "deserve" it. Also if you would try to teach the children that everyone should contribute to society by working, their parents/grandparents/even grand grandparents will protest. Since they lived this "parasite" lives forever and dont know better. How can someone demand that they work? They deserve higher social benefits and they deserve better housing. (While you are supposed to get a mortgage and slave to get a house). Also at some point the group will become so big that they can vote for politicians that will give them more (at the expense of those who work). Of course perhaps maybe UBI can work and it will be all rosy, but it is just wishful thinking. Communism was also supposed to work. Different problem with UBI is that middle class becomes nobodies - you are supposed to shut up because you get your dole. While I bet the rich people will still be rich.
- defrost 4y ago
  Interesting opinion, nothing that meshes with the actual largely indeterminate results of the Finish experiment [1] [2] [3] nor with the bulk of the other small scale examples [4]. Countries such as Australia with robust (compared to the US) welfare safety nets (not perfect by any means, but not to shabby overall) have proven to have strong long term GDP growth and to be resilient in the face of various global crisis events. Good safety nets provide a place to regroup and do better - without being reduced to homeless and struggling to meet basic food and clothing needs. [1] https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/161361 https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/handle/10024/161361 [2] https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector... [3] https://www.bruegel.org/blog-post/universal-basic-income-and-finnish-experiment https://www.bruegel.org/blog-post/universal-basic-income-and... [4] https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/19/21112570/universal-basic-income-ubi-map https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/19/21112570/univer...
  - argentinian 4y ago
    You should check Argentina's example too.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > This had an unfortunate effect of creating a group of people who never worked and all they did was raise 3-5 children. You dont seem to be aware that such programs are designed to have people raise such 5-6 children while doing nothing else in order to bump up the declining population. And if you think raising 6 children is not work... boy...
  - Glawen 4y ago
    I believe these program exist in the sole purpose of reducing criminality, so that the poor don't start thinking of robberies.
    - unity1001 4y ago

rrgok 4y ago

I'm not 100% pro UBI. But do you feel the current model/system is sustainable?

gptadmirer 4y ago

Because The educated is synonymous for woke politics bullshit these days. They got knowledge but they lack wisdom. They got their privilege living in safe 1st world environments but they forgot true human nature that 3rd worlders see daily.

unity1001 4y ago
> true human nature that 3rd worlders see daily. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=scientists-probe-human-nature-and-discover-we-are-good-after-all http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=scientists-... That's the objectively proven human nature. Not the randian nonsense. And that's what 3rd worlders see every day.
- gptadmirer 4y ago
  [flagged]

unity1001 4y ago

> when it's proven Don't invent false realities. Nobody proved nothing as such. The Finnish experiment and others showed that there is no relation in between ubi and unemployment.