9 ms·

C'mon, you have to purposefully be this obtuse. There's no other way it can happen. Literally any location in the northern US, especially the more rural and mo

C'mon, you have to purposefully be this obtuse. There's no other way it can happen. Literally any location in the northern US, especially the more rural and more dense urban, and doubly true if you make under 30k per household person and don't already have a circuit in your garage for an electric oven or electric clothes dryer. I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world.

defrost 4y ago
> I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world. Well, FWiW the Australian (and New Zealand) standard across the entire country is 240v with (most) internal circuits rated for 10 A .. but a call to an electrician gets you a { 15 | 20 | 25 | 32 } amp circuit pulled from the household breaker box (if high amp circuits weren't added at build time) [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112 In other EV news an Australian state (South Australia) had a net 104.1 per cent wind and solar over seven days (ie produced more renewable energy than total energy used and exported the excess) [2], and in my state "Renewables reach 84 pct share of world’s biggest isolated grid" [3] [2] https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-incredible-week-104-1-per-cent-wind-and-solar-over-seven-days/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-incredible-week... [3] https://reneweconomy.com.au/epic-stuff-renewables-reach-84-pct-share-of-worlds-biggest-isolated-grid/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/epic-stuff-renewables-reach-84-p... So, uhh, we have the infrastructure to charge EV's in isolated rural parts of the country and have had for decades .. increased generation is an issue but we have plans to significantly increase global green hydrogen production and export excess over local demand.
- isityouyesitsme 4y ago
  Right, so because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?" My comment specifically mentioned a 2030 or 2035 mandate, which is a US mandate. Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia? You're not doing the EV group any favors by ignoring the problems people describe that prevent them from buying one, and there is currently no US legislation to enable a mandate in the timeframe it would be required.
  - defrost 4y ago
    > because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?" No. How did arrive at that conclusion? Did you misread the user names and assume I made that comment? > Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia? You made a statement about other places in the world which was false, I gave an example of why it was false. You are now better informed, you're welcome.
    - isityouyesitsme 4y ago
      yes, I misread (or more accurately didn't read) user names. Apologies for that. But no, what I said was not false. I said that I suspect there are other locations in the world where this is true (meaning northern US isn't the only one), and the reply was that there are locations where it isn't true (Australia).
      - defrost 4y ago
        As often happens what we say doesn't always clearly convey what we mean to others, we've perhaps both fallen foul from this. A few points of note; * like or not Australia as a country is an interesting case study wrt "how do other countries fare?" .. we have charging capabilities .. but hellish distances between towns outside of cities. On the plus side the vast bulk of the population is urban | near urban .. so it's only the actual outback | rural | FiFo types that may be left with ICE down the timeline. * Future mandates are aspiration and exert a pressure to change; come crunch day it may have come to pass that sufficient recharge capability has been pushed out to Backwater Dale in Banjo County .. or not. When the reality comes to pass there is the option to modify policy in the face of some areas being better suited for mandated EVs than others.
        isityouyesitsme 4y ago
        I have zero problems with how Australia plans to meet its transportation needs. I do not live there. In the US, I also do not care much about whether cars are EV or not (my only actual hangup about EV as a technology is the raw material sourcing. It is perhaps as immoral as how we obtain oil, and we do not have a story on what to do with the waste). I may even buy one in a couple years (I run all my cars to the point where they need constant repair, and only buy used cars, so the average age of my cars when they are retired is about 12 years). But that is different than the fantasy that EV as a primary form of personal transportation will work for the vast majority of the northern US. I think the opposite of the intended effect will actually happen. We are forcing a mandate without a means for it to work.
kalleboo 4y ago
> and don't already have a circuit in your garage for an electric oven or electric clothes dryer. I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world Only North/Central America and Japan uses ~100V systems. The rest of the planet uses ~200V systems where more wattage in your outlets is standard.
- cesarb 4y ago
  > Only North/Central America and Japan uses ~100V systems. The rest of the planet uses ~200V systems Brazil (which is in South America) has many cities using 110V/115V/120V/127V (you can see at https://antigo.aneel.gov.br/tensoes-nominais https://antigo.aneel.gov.br/tensoes-nominais which voltages are used for a given city). Note that a single city can have both ~110V and ~220V, and sometimes both can be found in the same building, or even in the same room.
EdwardDiego 4y ago
Yep,but I'm assuming that nearly everyone in the Northern US is on the grid. And yep, economic concerns dominate, I get that. This is where I'd hope a government looking to encourage EVs would step in and help, if they're trying to make things happen before 2035. E.g., in my area, the regional council has a scheme where home owners can get a very low interest (or even no interest) loan to install good insulation, and you can also get another one to install a heat-pump. They're run through banks, but backed by the regional (and maybe central?) government. But, doing something like this will, initially, only subsidise the people who can already afford to buy an electric vehicle. TL;DR - it used to be that you couldn't refuel your car unless the servants brought more on horses, as the only service stations focused on oats. But we invested in infrastructure.

defrost 4y ago

> I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world. Well, FWiW the Australian (and New Zealand) standard across the entire country is 240v with (most) internal circuits rated for 10 A .. but a call to an electrician gets you a { 15 | 20 | 25 | 32 } amp circuit pulled from the household breaker box (if high amp circuits weren't added at build time) [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112 In other EV news an Australian state (South Australia) had a net 104.1 per cent wind and solar over seven days (ie produced more renewable energy than total energy used and exported the excess) [2], and in my state "Renewables reach 84 pct share of world’s biggest isolated grid" [3] [2] https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-incredible-week-104-1-per-cent-wind-and-solar-over-seven-days/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-incredible-week... [3] https://reneweconomy.com.au/epic-stuff-renewables-reach-84-pct-share-of-worlds-biggest-isolated-grid/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/epic-stuff-renewables-reach-84-p... So, uhh, we have the infrastructure to charge EV's in isolated rural parts of the country and have had for decades .. increased generation is an issue but we have plans to significantly increase global green hydrogen production and export excess over local demand.

isityouyesitsme 4y ago
Right, so because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?" My comment specifically mentioned a 2030 or 2035 mandate, which is a US mandate. Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia? You're not doing the EV group any favors by ignoring the problems people describe that prevent them from buying one, and there is currently no US legislation to enable a mandate in the timeframe it would be required.
- defrost 4y ago
  > because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?" No. How did arrive at that conclusion? Did you misread the user names and assume I made that comment? > Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia? You made a statement about other places in the world which was false, I gave an example of why it was false. You are now better informed, you're welcome.
  - isityouyesitsme 4y ago
    yes, I misread (or more accurately didn't read) user names. Apologies for that. But no, what I said was not false. I said that I suspect there are other locations in the world where this is true (meaning northern US isn't the only one), and the reply was that there are locations where it isn't true (Australia).
    - defrost 4y ago
      As often happens what we say doesn't always clearly convey what we mean to others, we've perhaps both fallen foul from this. A few points of note; * like or not Australia as a country is an interesting case study wrt "how do other countries fare?" .. we have charging capabilities .. but hellish distances between towns outside of cities. On the plus side the vast bulk of the population is urban | near urban .. so it's only the actual outback | rural | FiFo types that may be left with ICE down the timeline. * Future mandates are aspiration and exert a pressure to change; come crunch day it may have come to pass that sufficient recharge capability has been pushed out to Backwater Dale in Banjo County .. or not. When the reality comes to pass there is the option to modify policy in the face of some areas being better suited for mandated EVs than others.
      - isityouyesitsme 4y ago
        I have zero problems with how Australia plans to meet its transportation needs. I do not live there. In the US, I also do not care much about whether cars are EV or not (my only actual hangup about EV as a technology is the raw material sourcing. It is perhaps as immoral as how we obtain oil, and we do not have a story on what to do with the waste). I may even buy one in a couple years (I run all my cars to the point where they need constant repair, and only buy used cars, so the average age of my cars when they are retired is about 12 years). But that is different than the fantasy that EV as a primary form of personal transportation will work for the vast majority of the northern US. I think the opposite of the intended effect will actually happen. We are forcing a mandate without a means for it to work.

kalleboo 4y ago

> and don't already have a circuit in your garage for an electric oven or electric clothes dryer. I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world Only North/Central America and Japan uses ~100V systems. The rest of the planet uses ~200V systems where more wattage in your outlets is standard.

cesarb 4y ago
> Only North/Central America and Japan uses ~100V systems. The rest of the planet uses ~200V systems Brazil (which is in South America) has many cities using 110V/115V/120V/127V (you can see at https://antigo.aneel.gov.br/tensoes-nominais https://antigo.aneel.gov.br/tensoes-nominais which voltages are used for a given city). Note that a single city can have both ~110V and ~220V, and sometimes both can be found in the same building, or even in the same room.

EdwardDiego 4y ago

Yep,but I'm assuming that nearly everyone in the Northern US is on the grid. And yep, economic concerns dominate, I get that. This is where I'd hope a government looking to encourage EVs would step in and help, if they're trying to make things happen before 2035. E.g., in my area, the regional council has a scheme where home owners can get a very low interest (or even no interest) loan to install good insulation, and you can also get another one to install a heat-pump. They're run through banks, but backed by the regional (and maybe central?) government. But, doing something like this will, initially, only subsidise the people who can already afford to buy an electric vehicle. TL;DR - it used to be that you couldn't refuel your car unless the servants brought more on horses, as the only service stations focused on oats. But we invested in infrastructure.