3 ms·

They sure have, they keep 5 billion+ people alive.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
They also kill rivers and lakes. In my country, a massive move to dairying has corresponded to a massive increase in eutrophication. But that move to dairy from beef or sheep farming wasn't to feed the world, it was just to sell milk powder to China.
- captainoats 4y ago
  Isn’t selling milk powder to China feeding the world?
seltzered_ 4y ago
I get where you're coming from, folks like Vaclav Smil have talked about how the haber bosch process is arguably what's kept 2/3 of human population alive ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3013&v=5guXaWwQpe4&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3013&v=5guXaWwQpe4&feature=y... ). The issues are also: - Thinking beyond the anthropocentric and realize we've created many ocean dead zones: e.g. https://oceantoday.noaa.gov/happenowdeadzone/ https://oceantoday.noaa.gov/happenowdeadzone/ . Think about what this'll mean in terms of ocean temperature in life within our lifetimes. - Many farmsites simply use way too much nitrogen, possibly impacting human drinking water (one good person to follow in Iowa is Chris Jones ( https://mobile.twitter.com/RiverRaccoon/status/1541487782933270531?t=axlZzWPxWOM1mMR5OtyBCw&s=09 https://mobile.twitter.com/RiverRaccoon/status/1541487782933... ) and Silvia Secchi ( https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfSecchi https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfSecchi ) - Despite the above the predicament of deciding to use nitrogen inputs during adverse weather conditions (curious to hear about the alternatives here, from what I see even smallholder farmers that try to minimize nitrogen input still use a bit of it). - The haber bosch process itself, and industries seeking to find alternatives to produce ammonia gas (iirc likely used in making diesel DEF fluid urea - https://newatlas.com/energy/green-ammonia-phosphonium-production/ https://newatlas.com/energy/green-ammonia-phosphonium-produc... ). - The article also cites norman borlaug, of which there's plenty of questions to ask around the economic and ecological narratives around that work - e.g. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10460-022-10325-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10460-022-10325-2 and likely 'the violence of the green revolution' by vandana shiva, and 'the globalization of wheat' https://upittpress.org/books/9780822947349/ https://upittpress.org/books/9780822947349/

They also kill rivers and lakes. In my country, a massive move to dairying has corresponded to a massive increase in eutrophication. But that move to dairy from beef or sheep farming wasn't to feed the world, it was just to sell milk powder to China.

captainoats 4y ago
Isn’t selling milk powder to China feeding the world?

seltzered_ 4y ago

I get where you're coming from, folks like Vaclav Smil have talked about how the haber bosch process is arguably what's kept 2/3 of human population alive ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3013&v=5guXaWwQpe4&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3013&v=5guXaWwQpe4&feature=y... ). The issues are also: - Thinking beyond the anthropocentric and realize we've created many ocean dead zones: e.g. https://oceantoday.noaa.gov/happenowdeadzone/ https://oceantoday.noaa.gov/happenowdeadzone/ . Think about what this'll mean in terms of ocean temperature in life within our lifetimes. - Many farmsites simply use way too much nitrogen, possibly impacting human drinking water (one good person to follow in Iowa is Chris Jones ( https://mobile.twitter.com/RiverRaccoon/status/1541487782933270531?t=axlZzWPxWOM1mMR5OtyBCw&s=09 https://mobile.twitter.com/RiverRaccoon/status/1541487782933... ) and Silvia Secchi ( https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfSecchi https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfSecchi ) - Despite the above the predicament of deciding to use nitrogen inputs during adverse weather conditions (curious to hear about the alternatives here, from what I see even smallholder farmers that try to minimize nitrogen input still use a bit of it). - The haber bosch process itself, and industries seeking to find alternatives to produce ammonia gas (iirc likely used in making diesel DEF fluid urea - https://newatlas.com/energy/green-ammonia-phosphonium-production/ https://newatlas.com/energy/green-ammonia-phosphonium-produc... ). - The article also cites norman borlaug, of which there's plenty of questions to ask around the economic and ecological narratives around that work - e.g. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10460-022-10325-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10460-022-10325-2 and likely 'the violence of the green revolution' by vandana shiva, and 'the globalization of wheat' https://upittpress.org/books/9780822947349/ https://upittpress.org/books/9780822947349/