7 ms·

No laptops, no phones in class

37 points by jseliger 4y ago

jseliger 4y ago
I've done the same: https://jakeseliger.com/2008/12/28/laptops-students-distraction-hardly-a-surprise/ https://jakeseliger.com/2008/12/28/laptops-students-distract...
32gbsd 4y ago
I have heard some say that the phone is the most important invention in recent years but i am not so sure its helping our students
- yucky 4y ago
  Student performance on standardized math/reading tests has been decreasing almost every year, since roughly the launch of iPhone. Not saying there is a direct correlation, but I would feel comfortable in saying it certainly isn't helping..
Throwaway204044 4y ago
I have a physical disability (motor dysgraphia). I keep this extremely private - only a handful of people in my life know. Throughout university I used either a laptop or my phone for notes. > 1. Students with learning-related difficulties need to use laptops for note taking, and my policy either prevents that, or outs them as having a learning disability. > ... If a student needs a laptop I explain to the class that our Accommodations Center has a policy of hiring students to take notes on a laptop for students with relevant disabilities (which it does) and that anybody using a laptop is doing so for a student who needs typed notes. This explanation does nothing to alleviate the inevitable question of being 'outed' by anyone asking the question 'why are you using a laptop?'. I wouldn't have wanted to draw any more attention to myself by using my phone. I only encountered this policy with one lecturer at university. I worked around this by ignoring the policy when I was there (claiming arrogance when classmates asked) and skipping lectures. In this instance the policy didn't cause me major issues, but encouraging it further makes me uneasy.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  But should the classes be made worse for everyone for the benefit of a fairly small group of people (i.e. people with an invisible disability and the desire to keep this private)? In the end, it may be impossible to satisfy everyone, so some trade-offs will have to be made. "We can make accommodations if you ask" seems reasonable. Anyone can keep anything private for any reason as far as I'm concerned, but at the same time you also can't expect policies to be designed in such a way to accommodate every possible need automatically (i.e. without people asking for it).
  - Throwaway204044 4y ago
    Silent phone usage doesn't impact the class, it impacts the individual using the phone. Why should my education and social life be negatively impacted because individuals decide to indulge in self-destructive behaviours? I use my laptop because it's significantly more effective for my education than pen and paper. To answer your point, the group of people who are affected by this are people who use their laptops for notes. This isn't "a fairly small group of people". I'm just affected more than most: it eliminates my ability to take notes, rather than reducing the efficacy.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      But if half the class is fiddling with their phone instead of paying attention or engaging with the class it does begin to impact it overall.
      - Moldoteck 4y ago
        I would say it depends how the class is done. In my opinion all class material should be available as pdf before the class, and during the class students should just ask what they didnt understood from the material. Any good question can be included in faq's material for the next year
      - TheDesolate0 4y ago
        [dead]
lupire 4y ago
As usual, the core issue is students wasting time and attention taking notes instead of having a discussion. In a class of 30, we only need 2 or 3 note takers, and they can do it after the class, from the recording. Remove the note taking, and no one needs a laptop.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- alar44 4y ago
  Sure, may as well record the professor and no one needs to go to class at all.
  - Moldoteck 4y ago
    Yeah, too bad we don't have some portable web text format where professor can write his thoughts and share them with everybody before the class itself, so students will just ask additional questions during the class, oh wait...
    - dctoedt 4y ago
      > so students will just ask additional questions during the class LOL - if only students could be depended on to, you know, actually ask questions during class! The better approach: The professor poses (pre-written) questions to the class and tells the students, "turn to your neighbor and see what you think"; then, the professor calls on a group to answer. (See the example at § 2.2.3, "Homework review - signature block at https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/#Day02 https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/#Day02.) To be sure, this approach is initially more work for the instructor. But it seems to significantly increase audience engagement. Over time, the instructor builds up a question bank that can be selectively re-used.
      - alar44 4y ago
        If they don't that's their fault.
dctoedt 4y ago
I require laptop or tablet use in the contract-drafting course I teach. That's because a great deal of each class is spent in small-group problem solving of the "what would you do" type, based on the assigned reading and addressing realistic scenarios that can arise in practice — and of course a lawyer would use a laptop or tablet to look stuff up when necessary. [0] Over the years I've developed an extensive catalog of such problems; students have said they really like the "in-class study groups" approach. [0] When I was a young lawyer decades ago, I overheard a senior partner in our firm — one hell of a lawyer and a great guy but sometimes a bit moody — scold another associate for having guessed about a point of law that could and should have been checked. The partner's voice rising: "Why do you think we buy you the [expletive] books? It's so you can look these things up!"
jeffrallen 4y ago
I wish my kids would take his/her course. Except that's it's philosophy and... well, let's just say I was an econ minor.
TheDesolate0 4y ago
[dead]

37 points by jseliger 4y ago

I've done the same: https://jakeseliger.com/2008/12/28/laptops-students-distraction-hardly-a-surprise/ https://jakeseliger.com/2008/12/28/laptops-students-distract...

32gbsd 4y ago

I have heard some say that the phone is the most important invention in recent years but i am not so sure its helping our students

yucky 4y ago
Student performance on standardized math/reading tests has been decreasing almost every year, since roughly the launch of iPhone. Not saying there is a direct correlation, but I would feel comfortable in saying it certainly isn't helping..

Throwaway204044 4y ago

I have a physical disability (motor dysgraphia). I keep this extremely private - only a handful of people in my life know. Throughout university I used either a laptop or my phone for notes. > 1. Students with learning-related difficulties need to use laptops for note taking, and my policy either prevents that, or outs them as having a learning disability. > ... If a student needs a laptop I explain to the class that our Accommodations Center has a policy of hiring students to take notes on a laptop for students with relevant disabilities (which it does) and that anybody using a laptop is doing so for a student who needs typed notes. This explanation does nothing to alleviate the inevitable question of being 'outed' by anyone asking the question 'why are you using a laptop?'. I wouldn't have wanted to draw any more attention to myself by using my phone. I only encountered this policy with one lecturer at university. I worked around this by ignoring the policy when I was there (claiming arrogance when classmates asked) and skipping lectures. In this instance the policy didn't cause me major issues, but encouraging it further makes me uneasy.

Beltalowda 4y ago
But should the classes be made worse for everyone for the benefit of a fairly small group of people (i.e. people with an invisible disability and the desire to keep this private)? In the end, it may be impossible to satisfy everyone, so some trade-offs will have to be made. "We can make accommodations if you ask" seems reasonable. Anyone can keep anything private for any reason as far as I'm concerned, but at the same time you also can't expect policies to be designed in such a way to accommodate every possible need automatically (i.e. without people asking for it).
- Throwaway204044 4y ago
  Silent phone usage doesn't impact the class, it impacts the individual using the phone. Why should my education and social life be negatively impacted because individuals decide to indulge in self-destructive behaviours? I use my laptop because it's significantly more effective for my education than pen and paper. To answer your point, the group of people who are affected by this are people who use their laptops for notes. This isn't "a fairly small group of people". I'm just affected more than most: it eliminates my ability to take notes, rather than reducing the efficacy.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    But if half the class is fiddling with their phone instead of paying attention or engaging with the class it does begin to impact it overall.
    - Moldoteck 4y ago
      I would say it depends how the class is done. In my opinion all class material should be available as pdf before the class, and during the class students should just ask what they didnt understood from the material. Any good question can be included in faq's material for the next year
    - TheDesolate0 4y ago
      [dead]

lupire 4y ago

As usual, the core issue is students wasting time and attention taking notes instead of having a discussion. In a class of 30, we only need 2 or 3 note takers, and they can do it after the class, from the recording. Remove the note taking, and no one needs a laptop.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
alar44 4y ago
Sure, may as well record the professor and no one needs to go to class at all.
- Moldoteck 4y ago
  Yeah, too bad we don't have some portable web text format where professor can write his thoughts and share them with everybody before the class itself, so students will just ask additional questions during the class, oh wait...
  - dctoedt 4y ago
    > so students will just ask additional questions during the class LOL - if only students could be depended on to, you know, actually ask questions during class! The better approach: The professor poses (pre-written) questions to the class and tells the students, "turn to your neighbor and see what you think"; then, the professor calls on a group to answer. (See the example at § 2.2.3, "Homework review - signature block at https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/#Day02 https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/#Day02.) To be sure, this approach is initially more work for the instructor. But it seems to significantly increase audience engagement. Over time, the instructor builds up a question bank that can be selectively re-used.
    - alar44 4y ago
      If they don't that's their fault.

dctoedt 4y ago

I require laptop or tablet use in the contract-drafting course I teach. That's because a great deal of each class is spent in small-group problem solving of the "what would you do" type, based on the assigned reading and addressing realistic scenarios that can arise in practice — and of course a lawyer would use a laptop or tablet to look stuff up when necessary. [0] Over the years I've developed an extensive catalog of such problems; students have said they really like the "in-class study groups" approach. [0] When I was a young lawyer decades ago, I overheard a senior partner in our firm — one hell of a lawyer and a great guy but sometimes a bit moody — scold another associate for having guessed about a point of law that could and should have been checked. The partner's voice rising: "Why do you think we buy you the [expletive] books? It's so you can look these things up!"

jeffrallen 4y ago

I wish my kids would take his/her course. Except that's it's philosophy and... well, let's just say I was an econ minor.

TheDesolate0 4y ago

[dead]