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> But you know what I don't do? Freeze my ass off standing in a gas station in subzero temperatures and howling winds! Not missing that at all. Right! And I su

• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• akmarinov 4y ago
  2035 US is 2022 Europe, if your garage has power - you have 220v
  • Schnitz 4y ago
    How many people in the US do really not have 220V in the garage? I bet a lot of homes have either a sub-panel (and thus could add 220V very easily) or a laundry (dryer socket, 220V).
    • nickthegreek 4y ago
      I think most of us don’t even have garages.
    • zainhoda 4y ago
      My guess is that older homes in the northeast will have an issue not with adding the outlet but upgrading from 100amp to 200amp service. I was quoted $10k for that upgrade. I had to decide between getting an EV and getting a heat pump. Decided on the heat pump, which I’m very happy with — it’s saving me thousands on heating oil.
      • mec31 4y ago
        Can confirm. I have an 1898 house in the Northeast. Just upgraded from 100A service to 200A service for $3900. I didn’t own the house at the time, but I believe it went from 40A to 100A in 1985.
    • sokoloff 4y ago
      I don’t right now in my detached garage (though I buried conduits during recent landscaping to permit me to pull them later). Right now, I have a 120V, 15A circuit out there that powers everything. Regardless, my cheap LEAF turned 8 just a bit ago and I’ve driven it in New England year-round for 8 years without issue, even with only level 1 charging at home. It’s fine for an around-town daily driver (which is what the LEAF is well-matched to).
    • dragonwriter 4y ago
      > How many people in the US do really not have 220V in the garage? I only have 220V in an indoor laundry room, not the garage. Adding it would only be a small one-time expense.
      • bdcravens 4y ago
        Probably $500-1000 if you hire an electrician. I did it myself fairly easily (largest cost is the copper wire if it's not a short run; GFCI breaker can also add a little cost if you have to have one - it's code in some states)
        • tatersolid 4y ago
          Many states or municipalities require conduit for >=110V. Some require licensed electricians to perform all work, along with permits and building inspector approvals. Yes, even for pulling a new circuit from an existing panel.
    • doubled112 4y ago
      I'm in Canada in a house built in 2012. Attached garage - my living room is above it. The breaker panel is in the garage so it'd be easy to add, but my only 220V devices, the dryer and stove (along with their outlets), are inside the house. I've never heard of a dryer in the garage before. It isn't heated, and in winter months, it's cold enough that snow doesn't melt. Would that have an effect on drying my clothes?
      • bdcravens 4y ago
        They'd probably still dry, it just may take more energy, depending on your dryer. Funny enough my internal dryer can cause my clothes to be damp, as the exhaust runs to the attic instead of directly outside, and the moisture can come back into the dryer. (can be overcome by installing an active exhaust fan)
      • fsckboy 4y ago
        you can dry clothing by hanging it on a line outside in winter, the vapor pressure of ice is a positive number. So, yes, your dryer will work in the garage.
    • bdcravens 4y ago
      New house built this year. No 220V in the garage (utility room is inside the house - I used to connect my charger there and run it to garage). However, I was able to easily add 220V, even as a first time DIYer.
    • chrisdhoover 4y ago
      I dont have 220 in the garage. Of course 220 is coming into the panel but there is no circuit breaker, wiring or outlet. In my experience this is common. 220 is only provided for washers, stoves, and HVAC. Can a 220 outlet be added, certainly, but it is not default.
      • jsjohnst 4y ago
        Washing machines very rarely are 240V in the US, they usually are 120V. It’s electric dryers that are 240V.
      • Schnitz 4y ago
        That's my point though, you can add a 220v socket pretty cheaply given there's a panel.
    • fsckboy 4y ago
      the 220 circuit to your dryer and the 220 circuit to your electric stove do not have the capacity to add more items to the wiring (the stove is a much higher capacity circuit btw). Yes, it's true that you wouldn't need to use your car charger while you use your appliances, but that's not how residential building code circuits work. I suppose there must be or at least could be a solution to switch the power over? But you can't just go plugging it in and remain within code. my brother does a lot of stuff with power tools, and whenever he moves he has to have extra lines brought in by the power company. While houses frequently have 220 coming in, they don't have 3-phase.
  • nicoburns 4y ago
    Or indeed 1960s Europe for that matter. I believe most US homes have a ~240v supply, even if they don't have any outlets that allow them to use it.
    • bluGill 4y ago
      in the very early days of utility serice some houses got 110 volt only, but most of them got upgraded to 220 in the 1950s.
  • vardump 4y ago
    I think in Europe other than older buildings, garages have mostly 400V 3 phase. At least in northern parts, probably a lot worse in southern parts.
    • hef19898 4y ago
      Land lines are 400 V 3 phase in Germany, as you need those for the elecrric ovens and that is what utilities deliver. Standard plugs and wiring are 240 V. So every garage would at least have 240 V, if there is a plug, and 400 V can be installed.
  • chess_buster 4y ago
    To be honest, we had 220V in the Garage since I was born about 40 years ago.
• kzrdude 4y ago
  I'm curious, is 220V (or 230V) more than twice as fast/twice as good as 110V? The discussion here makes it sound like it. All I know is that you'll need higher amperage with lower voltage, but it can compensate proportionally. I guess heat losses and other problems are significant, if it's a problem at 110V?
  • murderfs 4y ago
    At the same amperage, it's exactly twice as good, but if you're going to get a 220V outlet installed, you're also going to get a higher amperage circuit installed at the same time, so you can charge at 220V/50A instead of 110V/12A, which is 8x faster.
    • jaclaz 4y ago
      But you need also the electric company to be able to deliver that power, roughly 10kW, in addition to all your other electric appliances. Common contracts - at least here (Italy) - are for 3 or 4.5kW, a few are 6 kW, 10 kW or more are rare, and you probably need to get to 15kW to be able to have those 10kW available for charging.
      • xxpor 4y ago
        Anything less than 48kw is essentially unheard of in new construction in the US, and even old houses with 24kw service are getting upgraded. Less than 24 is considered essentially unsellable.
        • jaclaz 4y ago
          In new constructions, but what about the existing neighbourhoods?
          • xxpor 4y ago
            Same thing. If your house was built after WW2 it will usually have 200a service if you're all electric, and maybe 150 if your heat is non-electric. Most older houses have also been upgraded at this point too. It's not uncommon for larger houses to have 400a (96kw) service.
• devb 4y ago
  > not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave What about the millions of people who live in apartments and rowhouses?
  • dragonwriter 4y ago
    > What about the millions of people who live in apartments and rowhouses? If they have cars, they have a place to park them, and this place can host a charger. Outdoor parking without access controls may have security issues, but that's true without a charging point, too.
    • Too 4y ago
      A place where you can’t even park your car outdoors unattended is not a place you want to live in in the first place.
  • josephcsible 4y ago
    Where do those people park their cars now? Wherever that is, put a charger on a post next to the spot.
    • StanislavPetrov 4y ago
      And where does the electricity come for those chargers? Huge swaths of the USA are experiencing rolling blackouts right now because there isn't enough electrical capacity.
      • twarge 4y ago
        And the car batteries can supply peak demand instead of having a blackout.
        • mcbits 4y ago
          I hope that doesn't mean I plug in my car at 80%, hoping to top it off for a long trip, but since everyone else is averaging 60% and there's peak demand, it decides to drain the battery and generously put a dollar in my account.
• pmontra 4y ago
  Not everybody has a garage. Cities are full of parked cars in front of residential buildings. It did park my car in a street when I was living in a city. By 2035 those streets must be refitted with chargers, one per parking slot and somehow replace the energy distributed as gasoline and diesel with electrical energy. If that doesn't happen people will have to leave their car at a charging station for far more time than what it takes to fill a tank with gas. And that doesn't solve the problem of the energy. Or having a car will get so expensive that only a few people will afford it and that will solve all those problems, but create others.
  • not_me_ever 4y ago
    In Finland we have 220v outlets at every parking spot, since the batteries of ICEs just die during the -20C winter nights without being hooked up. We all charge our EVs on those same outlets, and I never heard of anybody not having a full charge the next morning. The main reason why we have so many EVs here -> they are more reliable in the cold. People stopped freezing to death in their Diesels that got stranded on the roadside.
  • acdha 4y ago
    Cars should be more expensive to cover their externalities but considering that cars spend 95% of the day parked and most people are not driving hundreds of miles per day, it seems likely that the combination of charging points at parking garages and similar structures, homes, streetlights, etc. is going to reach a level where most people can charge more than they need to. In fact, since solar has such massive daylight spikes we probably should be thinking about what we can do to get people to charge their cars at work instead of overnight.
    • Vecr 4y ago
      If someone actually believes in democracy, they should try to get politicians to agree with the statement "cars should be more expensive to cover their externalities" on the record. In the US, almost every single one would dodge the question or outright disagree. Even the ones not running for re-election don't want to ruin their and their party's reputation.
• davchana 4y ago
  Hey, my apartment in Central California doesn't have microwave (although its a good apartment).
• verdenti 4y ago
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• thayne 4y ago
  In 2035 I will most likely be living in the same home I am now, and putting a 220v outlet in my garage is a lot more expensive than buying a microwave.
  • cwalv 4y ago
    I suspect it will get cheaper, esp for the common case where you don't need to upgrade the service to your home, and there's already a panel/subpanel present. The cost is mostly labor, and in that case it can be installed in a couple hours or less. Also, 30% of the cost is already subsidized as part of the IRA. As EV prices become more competitive, such that having the outlet/charger installed in their garage is an actual burden for the ppl buying EVs, I wouldn't be surprised to see this subsidy increase
• treeman79 4y ago
  Will power even be a thing? Rolling power outages in many states last couple of days. Many forms of energy are being retired faster then wind solar are being brought online.
• otabdeveloper4 4y ago
  By 2035 people won't be driving car-shaped objects, not unless they're professional taxi drivers.
  • refurb 4y ago
    People will still be driving car-shaped objected until 2055. People wildly overestimate advances. Look at how much has changed in the last 20 years. Not much.
    • otabdeveloper4 4y ago
      Not as personal transportation, though. Too expensive and wasteful.
  • oblio 4y ago
    This is super ridiculous. How do you think this will happen? The buyer of the 2022 Toyota Corolla will just be banned from driving it in 2035? In the US they can't even ban guns, you expect individual driving of owned cars to be banned? :-)))
    • otabdeveloper4 4y ago
      Not banned. The car shape is probably the most inefficient form factor posssible for an electric vehicle, and economic and market forces will do their thing.
      • neon_electro 4y ago
        What will change between now and 2035 that will enable "economic and market forces [to] do their thing" that isn't already true today? Can you explain why the "most inefficient form factor possible" is still the norm today?