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> Personally, I hate owning vehicles and desperately want a self-driving taxi service that I can order via an app to get me and my family around. This future s

by samtho 4y ago

> Personally, I hate owning vehicles and desperately want a self-driving taxi service that I can order via an app to get me and my family around. This future sounds great until you consider what it really means to let “someone else” become the arbiter of you being able to get around. If I have a car in my driveway, I can make sure it is charged/fueled for whenever I need it and I can just turn it on and go. Compare that to a system who’s goal is not specifically moving you, but keeping cars/assets always on paid trips. Sure, you may in luck if you live in a well-off areas where many trips are taken, but I fear peak hours will become something of a bidding war where nobody wins. If you do not control your means of transport, someone else does and they can take it away from you at any time. This “rent seeking” is one of the biggest cancers on our society and I will be no part of it given the choice.

simondotau 4y ago
> This future sounds great until you consider what it really means to let “someone else” become the arbiter of you being able to get around. Assuming we're discounting things like bicycles, family member's vehicles and company-owned vehicles, this is present day reality for the overwhelming majority of people on this planet. (It's also debatable whether a car truly eliminates other people from being an arbiter of "being able to get around" if you are still reliant on a fossil fuel supply chain. By comparison an EV charged with a domestic solar array would probably more liberating.)
- cwalv 4y ago
  > By comparison an EV charged with a domestic solar array would probably more liberating By comparison, yes. But where are you going to go, or what are you going to do, that isn't dependent on other ppl in some way? I like the idea of being self-supporting as much as anyone, but that doesn't change the fact that we're all interdependent in modern society.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    Precisely my point, though I didn’t say it precisely. The notion that we’re ever not dependant on the actions of other people is utterly fictitious.
jimkleiber 4y ago
I've thought about this: if all transport is public transport, then how much is our physical freedom limited? Yes, bikes and other things may exist, but if all high-powered transport is outside of our control, how much control do we have over our movements? That being said, I think a lot of people in the US purchase cars through auto loans, and those loans while not physically limiting one's day-to-day mobility, can restrict one's job mobility. Maybe it only applies to certain economic classes, yet I imagine some people may be afraid to leave their job or lose their job because if they do, they lose their car and therefore lose their ability to move. And the safety net for physical movement in some places if one doesn't have a car is close to zero.
- randerson 4y ago
  Good public transport is the ultimate freedom. Being able to go out for a few drinks without worrying about how to get home. No government-issued ID stuck to the box you move around in. No parking, insurance, dealerships, fines..
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    Agreed. I live in a city with amazing and cheap public transport and I love it. Apart from the things you mentioned a car also means you always have to go back to the place you left it. I walk lot and not having to worry about that really helps.
4674383 4y ago
It seems laughable to worry about how easily automated transporation can be selectively taken away when in present times rail and bus workers go on strike plenty often. I'd gladly replace my car with an on-demand service if it was reliable and cheaper than purchasing and maintaining my Prius.
tnel77 4y ago
There’s definitely a lot of variables that I’m sure I won’t appreciate until I am living this self-driving taxi experience, but I wouldn’t be selling my personal vehicles the moment such a service became available to me. I would finish out my current lease and just keep my one paid off vehicle. Once I have enough confidence in this new setup, I would go about selling that last car. That would probably be after 2-3 years minimum.
season2episode3 4y ago
> If you do not control your means of transport, someone else does and they can take it away from you at any time. The car does provide "freedom of movement" in a libertarian fantasy way, but in reality one gives up your privacy with a drivers license. Speed traps and cameras track license plates, police can stop you, and you need to be sober. You are paying rent in the form of license fees and parking tickets; and you are paying for fuel which relies upon a long and complicated supply chain. In urban areas, one might imagine other types of freedom. Such as the choice of walking/biking/bus/taxi/tram/subway in addition to driving, or some combination of those. > I fear peak hours will become something of a bidding war where nobody wins. If only there was a public option that wasn't surge-priced.

by samtho 4y ago

simondotau 4y ago

> This future sounds great until you consider what it really means to let “someone else” become the arbiter of you being able to get around. Assuming we're discounting things like bicycles, family member's vehicles and company-owned vehicles, this is present day reality for the overwhelming majority of people on this planet. (It's also debatable whether a car truly eliminates other people from being an arbiter of "being able to get around" if you are still reliant on a fossil fuel supply chain. By comparison an EV charged with a domestic solar array would probably more liberating.)

cwalv 4y ago
> By comparison an EV charged with a domestic solar array would probably more liberating By comparison, yes. But where are you going to go, or what are you going to do, that isn't dependent on other ppl in some way? I like the idea of being self-supporting as much as anyone, but that doesn't change the fact that we're all interdependent in modern society.
- simondotau 4y ago
  Precisely my point, though I didn’t say it precisely. The notion that we’re ever not dependant on the actions of other people is utterly fictitious.

jimkleiber 4y ago

I've thought about this: if all transport is public transport, then how much is our physical freedom limited? Yes, bikes and other things may exist, but if all high-powered transport is outside of our control, how much control do we have over our movements? That being said, I think a lot of people in the US purchase cars through auto loans, and those loans while not physically limiting one's day-to-day mobility, can restrict one's job mobility. Maybe it only applies to certain economic classes, yet I imagine some people may be afraid to leave their job or lose their job because if they do, they lose their car and therefore lose their ability to move. And the safety net for physical movement in some places if one doesn't have a car is close to zero.

randerson 4y ago
Good public transport is the ultimate freedom. Being able to go out for a few drinks without worrying about how to get home. No government-issued ID stuck to the box you move around in. No parking, insurance, dealerships, fines..
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Agreed. I live in a city with amazing and cheap public transport and I love it. Apart from the things you mentioned a car also means you always have to go back to the place you left it. I walk lot and not having to worry about that really helps.

4674383 4y ago

It seems laughable to worry about how easily automated transporation can be selectively taken away when in present times rail and bus workers go on strike plenty often. I'd gladly replace my car with an on-demand service if it was reliable and cheaper than purchasing and maintaining my Prius.

tnel77 4y ago

There’s definitely a lot of variables that I’m sure I won’t appreciate until I am living this self-driving taxi experience, but I wouldn’t be selling my personal vehicles the moment such a service became available to me. I would finish out my current lease and just keep my one paid off vehicle. Once I have enough confidence in this new setup, I would go about selling that last car. That would probably be after 2-3 years minimum.

season2episode3 4y ago

> If you do not control your means of transport, someone else does and they can take it away from you at any time. The car does provide "freedom of movement" in a libertarian fantasy way, but in reality one gives up your privacy with a drivers license. Speed traps and cameras track license plates, police can stop you, and you need to be sober. You are paying rent in the form of license fees and parking tickets; and you are paying for fuel which relies upon a long and complicated supply chain. In urban areas, one might imagine other types of freedom. Such as the choice of walking/biking/bus/taxi/tram/subway in addition to driving, or some combination of those. > I fear peak hours will become something of a bidding war where nobody wins. If only there was a public option that wasn't surge-priced.