6 ms·

I think right now is exactly where I want weed to be in society: a taboo, not normalized in the mainstream, you get in trouble if you’re stupid with it, but oth

I think right now is exactly where I want weed to be in society: a taboo, not normalized in the mainstream, you get in trouble if you’re stupid with it, but otherwise if you’re just an occasional user you can get it just fine. This is pretty much perfect to me. What I don’t want is broad normalization of it. Maybe some cultures do just fine with that, but the trend is America has been to maximize the individual liberty without any concept of duty or decency to others, and the obvious consequence is rampant abuse and widespread degeneracy that everyone is subjected to whether they consent to it or not. In other words, I don’t think we’re mature enough as a society to have easy access to the cookie jar without deciding to eat cookies for every meal. Walk through the streets of NYC or SF to see what I mean. People don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves, and giving them more tools to be self indulgent while avoiding social responsibility + spewing externalities is just a no-go at the moment. I imagine a world with legal weed is a lot like a world with legal porn: it’s everywhere, even children get exposed to it insanely young, people treat it like “a human right” and so fight any reasonable restrictions made to curb the broader social effects, and the externalities hit everyone whether they like it or not. Not every vice needs to be legal. Keep it illegal and weaken enforcement. Keep it a taboo, and for those who really need it they can still find it. And for the record: I have edibles at home. I’m not against responsible weed use at all, I just don’t think society at large will be responsible users and I don’t want to live in a society full of that. Porn went through the exact same evolution as weed is and now it’s everywhere

worik 4y ago
> And for the record: I have edibles at home. I’m not against responsible weed use at all Then throw away those edibles (that some body might confuse with food) and replace it with the safer, much safer, dried flower.
- eldritch_4ier 4y ago
  Why? I'm pretty clear here: I'm for responsible weed use, but I think legalizing weed will lead to massive irresponsible use
BatteryMountain 4y ago
Checkout the Huberman episode about cannabis, specifically the part about pregnant women using cannabis during pregnancy like its no big deal. Resonates with your comment.
kmonsen 4y ago
I don't really disagree but my counter argument is that I think breaking the law should be meaningful and enforcement should not be random and perhaps politically motivated. Weed in particular has been used to stop and search cars with minority populations due to the police officer claiming to smell it. Also the US has a culture of having too many laws that are selectively enforced (IMHO but I think this is widely held belief).
saiya-jin 4y ago
Not really grokking your comment, a lot of inconsistency. You point to deeper issues in American society, and you are very much fine with playing endless whack-a-mole with its symptoms manifesting left and right instead of dealing with issue like grown ups do - attack the underlying problem, instead of seeing endless spiral of growing issues that it brings. You base this on extreme idea that when weed is legalized it will be literally everywhere, which is incorrect, outdated and the very source of utter republican clusterfuck that War on drugs was and is. Hasn't this produced enough evil in whole world so we should wise up for a change?
- eldritch_4ier 4y ago
  I do want to solve the underlying problems, of course. My point in this limited context is that until we can solve those problems, legalizing weed just compounds the issues. The underlying problems are really fkn-ing hard to solve. It's a culture problem. I base the idea that weed will proliferate based on the trajectory of porn or alcohol: they ARE everywhere.
mgbmtl 4y ago
I find that cultures who keep things as taboo tend to create a vicious cycle of education problems. Education does not encourage, it exposes both the good and the bad. You learn the navigate the problem instead of being trapped by it. I lost many friends to alcohol/drugs when it was more taboo but easy to access. There was an old expression "say know to drugs". I spent a lot of time as a teen reading about various drugs and their effects. Ultimately, it made me stop exploring. Otherwise I probably would have taken way more risks (which I did before discovering sites such as Erowid back then). I have a teenager, and so far so good. Whether it's fast-food, drugs, alcohol, sex or porn, they exist. My logic usually has been: 1) wait if you can, 2) be moderate, 3) know the good and the bad, learn to set boundaries. My main grief is with alcohol. It's glorified, associated to socializing and sports. The bad impacts of alcohol are taboo, and yet they're everywhere, but it's a big business. I like a drink now and then, with my partner or with friends, but with my partner we have a hard boundary of 2 glasses per week each, and with friends it's max 3 pints, max twice per month. Cannabis twice per month, in small quantities.
honkycat 4y ago
You can't download weed.
eikenberry 4y ago
The big downside to porn as it stands in the US today is the fact that it is still taboo. It keeps the workers in the industry from getting proper respect and representation, so they are taken advantage a lot. IE. The problem isn't that it's legal and everywhere, the problem is that it is still taboo. Sex is such an integral part of being a human and I find our shame of it sad.
pstuart 4y ago
> Not every vice needs to be legal. Yes, they should. We've collectively agreed that dangerous drugs should be legal (i.e., alcohol and tobacco). Making them illegal doesn't make it go away, it just fosters criminal activity. Tax and regulate them. Educate the people about the dangers (honestly) and treat abuse as a health issue, not a criminal issue.
sowbug 4y ago
In other words, you trust the cops to enforce drug laws only against the riff-raff.

worik 4y ago

> And for the record: I have edibles at home. I’m not against responsible weed use at all Then throw away those edibles (that some body might confuse with food) and replace it with the safer, much safer, dried flower.

eldritch_4ier 4y ago
Why? I'm pretty clear here: I'm for responsible weed use, but I think legalizing weed will lead to massive irresponsible use

BatteryMountain 4y ago

Checkout the Huberman episode about cannabis, specifically the part about pregnant women using cannabis during pregnancy like its no big deal. Resonates with your comment.

kmonsen 4y ago

I don't really disagree but my counter argument is that I think breaking the law should be meaningful and enforcement should not be random and perhaps politically motivated. Weed in particular has been used to stop and search cars with minority populations due to the police officer claiming to smell it. Also the US has a culture of having too many laws that are selectively enforced (IMHO but I think this is widely held belief).

saiya-jin 4y ago

Not really grokking your comment, a lot of inconsistency. You point to deeper issues in American society, and you are very much fine with playing endless whack-a-mole with its symptoms manifesting left and right instead of dealing with issue like grown ups do - attack the underlying problem, instead of seeing endless spiral of growing issues that it brings. You base this on extreme idea that when weed is legalized it will be literally everywhere, which is incorrect, outdated and the very source of utter republican clusterfuck that War on drugs was and is. Hasn't this produced enough evil in whole world so we should wise up for a change?

eldritch_4ier 4y ago
I do want to solve the underlying problems, of course. My point in this limited context is that until we can solve those problems, legalizing weed just compounds the issues. The underlying problems are really fkn-ing hard to solve. It's a culture problem. I base the idea that weed will proliferate based on the trajectory of porn or alcohol: they ARE everywhere.

mgbmtl 4y ago

I find that cultures who keep things as taboo tend to create a vicious cycle of education problems. Education does not encourage, it exposes both the good and the bad. You learn the navigate the problem instead of being trapped by it. I lost many friends to alcohol/drugs when it was more taboo but easy to access. There was an old expression "say know to drugs". I spent a lot of time as a teen reading about various drugs and their effects. Ultimately, it made me stop exploring. Otherwise I probably would have taken way more risks (which I did before discovering sites such as Erowid back then). I have a teenager, and so far so good. Whether it's fast-food, drugs, alcohol, sex or porn, they exist. My logic usually has been: 1) wait if you can, 2) be moderate, 3) know the good and the bad, learn to set boundaries. My main grief is with alcohol. It's glorified, associated to socializing and sports. The bad impacts of alcohol are taboo, and yet they're everywhere, but it's a big business. I like a drink now and then, with my partner or with friends, but with my partner we have a hard boundary of 2 glasses per week each, and with friends it's max 3 pints, max twice per month. Cannabis twice per month, in small quantities.

honkycat 4y ago

You can't download weed.

eikenberry 4y ago

The big downside to porn as it stands in the US today is the fact that it is still taboo. It keeps the workers in the industry from getting proper respect and representation, so they are taken advantage a lot. IE. The problem isn't that it's legal and everywhere, the problem is that it is still taboo. Sex is such an integral part of being a human and I find our shame of it sad.

pstuart 4y ago

> Not every vice needs to be legal. Yes, they should. We've collectively agreed that dangerous drugs should be legal (i.e., alcohol and tobacco). Making them illegal doesn't make it go away, it just fosters criminal activity. Tax and regulate them. Educate the people about the dangers (honestly) and treat abuse as a health issue, not a criminal issue.

sowbug 4y ago

In other words, you trust the cops to enforce drug laws only against the riff-raff.