4 ms·

This is frustrating, because I think it’s a near certainty marijuana will be legalized federally. If I was a betting man, which I’m not, certainly not enough to

This is frustrating, because I think it’s a near certainty marijuana will be legalized federally. If I was a betting man, which I’m not, certainly not enough to mess with prediction markets, I’d call myself 95% certain. All this ambiguity is just grinding inefficiency in the meantime. Look at all that states where this is legal or decriminalized: https://disa.com/maps/marijuana-legality-by-state https://disa.com/maps/marijuana-legality-by-state And even in states where it’s still illegal, I really have trouble believing they are spending a whole lot of time enforcing that. States have legalized it, they have seen great tax revenue, they have not seen huge swatches of marijuana-related crimes and medical emergencies (though I admit that’s hard to pick out above the noise of all the other stuff over the past few years). It’s going to happen. Everyone knows it’s going to happen. But we have to go through this song and dance where we keep it illegal, because reasons.

loeg 4y ago
> States have legalized it, they have seen great tax revenue, they have not seen huge swatches of marijuana-related crimes and medical emergencies. States have seen increased theft from marijuana businesses. Both because they need to hold a lot of cash (very related to being locked out of banking) and because the weed itself has some resale value on the black market. (I still think legalization is obviously worth it, just want to clarify that particular part of your statement.)
- robocat 4y ago
  > States have seen increased theft That is possibly selection bias. Marijuana thefts were previously not reported to the authorities, so it is difficult to estimate whether the actual number of thefts has changed.
eldritch_4ier 4y ago
I think right now is exactly where I want weed to be in society: a taboo, not normalized in the mainstream, you get in trouble if you’re stupid with it, but otherwise if you’re just an occasional user you can get it just fine. This is pretty much perfect to me. What I don’t want is broad normalization of it. Maybe some cultures do just fine with that, but the trend is America has been to maximize the individual liberty without any concept of duty or decency to others, and the obvious consequence is rampant abuse and widespread degeneracy that everyone is subjected to whether they consent to it or not. In other words, I don’t think we’re mature enough as a society to have easy access to the cookie jar without deciding to eat cookies for every meal. Walk through the streets of NYC or SF to see what I mean. People don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves, and giving them more tools to be self indulgent while avoiding social responsibility + spewing externalities is just a no-go at the moment. I imagine a world with legal weed is a lot like a world with legal porn: it’s everywhere, even children get exposed to it insanely young, people treat it like “a human right” and so fight any reasonable restrictions made to curb the broader social effects, and the externalities hit everyone whether they like it or not. Not every vice needs to be legal. Keep it illegal and weaken enforcement. Keep it a taboo, and for those who really need it they can still find it. And for the record: I have edibles at home. I’m not against responsible weed use at all, I just don’t think society at large will be responsible users and I don’t want to live in a society full of that. Porn went through the exact same evolution as weed is and now it’s everywhere
- worik 4y ago
  > And for the record: I have edibles at home. I’m not against responsible weed use at all Then throw away those edibles (that some body might confuse with food) and replace it with the safer, much safer, dried flower.
  - eldritch_4ier 4y ago
    Why? I'm pretty clear here: I'm for responsible weed use, but I think legalizing weed will lead to massive irresponsible use
- BatteryMountain 4y ago
  Checkout the Huberman episode about cannabis, specifically the part about pregnant women using cannabis during pregnancy like its no big deal. Resonates with your comment.
- kmonsen 4y ago
  I don't really disagree but my counter argument is that I think breaking the law should be meaningful and enforcement should not be random and perhaps politically motivated. Weed in particular has been used to stop and search cars with minority populations due to the police officer claiming to smell it. Also the US has a culture of having too many laws that are selectively enforced (IMHO but I think this is widely held belief).
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Not really grokking your comment, a lot of inconsistency. You point to deeper issues in American society, and you are very much fine with playing endless whack-a-mole with its symptoms manifesting left and right instead of dealing with issue like grown ups do - attack the underlying problem, instead of seeing endless spiral of growing issues that it brings. You base this on extreme idea that when weed is legalized it will be literally everywhere, which is incorrect, outdated and the very source of utter republican clusterfuck that War on drugs was and is. Hasn't this produced enough evil in whole world so we should wise up for a change?
wishfish 4y ago
We have something very close to national legalization right now. Fortunately, it seems to be flying under the radar so red state legislatures aren't acting against it. By "legalization", I'm talking mostly about THC edibles. There are now hemp-based edibles which contain as much THC as traditional MJ edibles. Legal in all states. Achieved thanks to the Hemp Act and some creative processing of hemp. It's an interesting wrinkle to this whole mess.
- worik 4y ago
  If there are any dangerous ways to consume cannabis, then eating it has to rank highly. Not actually seriously dangerous to one's health to eat cannabis on purpose. But extremely disconcerting and discombobulating if consumed accidentally. Even on purpose it is easy to overdose. Not a lethal overdose but still deeply unpleasant. Given that there are very few problems with smoking it (surprisingly, there should be, but the data is quite clear - few risks) this really demonstrates the moral depravity of drug laws.

loeg 4y ago

> States have legalized it, they have seen great tax revenue, they have not seen huge swatches of marijuana-related crimes and medical emergencies. States have seen increased theft from marijuana businesses. Both because they need to hold a lot of cash (very related to being locked out of banking) and because the weed itself has some resale value on the black market. (I still think legalization is obviously worth it, just want to clarify that particular part of your statement.)

robocat 4y ago
> States have seen increased theft That is possibly selection bias. Marijuana thefts were previously not reported to the authorities, so it is difficult to estimate whether the actual number of thefts has changed.

eldritch_4ier 4y ago

I think right now is exactly where I want weed to be in society: a taboo, not normalized in the mainstream, you get in trouble if you’re stupid with it, but otherwise if you’re just an occasional user you can get it just fine. This is pretty much perfect to me. What I don’t want is broad normalization of it. Maybe some cultures do just fine with that, but the trend is America has been to maximize the individual liberty without any concept of duty or decency to others, and the obvious consequence is rampant abuse and widespread degeneracy that everyone is subjected to whether they consent to it or not. In other words, I don’t think we’re mature enough as a society to have easy access to the cookie jar without deciding to eat cookies for every meal. Walk through the streets of NYC or SF to see what I mean. People don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves, and giving them more tools to be self indulgent while avoiding social responsibility + spewing externalities is just a no-go at the moment. I imagine a world with legal weed is a lot like a world with legal porn: it’s everywhere, even children get exposed to it insanely young, people treat it like “a human right” and so fight any reasonable restrictions made to curb the broader social effects, and the externalities hit everyone whether they like it or not. Not every vice needs to be legal. Keep it illegal and weaken enforcement. Keep it a taboo, and for those who really need it they can still find it. And for the record: I have edibles at home. I’m not against responsible weed use at all, I just don’t think society at large will be responsible users and I don’t want to live in a society full of that. Porn went through the exact same evolution as weed is and now it’s everywhere

worik 4y ago
> And for the record: I have edibles at home. I’m not against responsible weed use at all Then throw away those edibles (that some body might confuse with food) and replace it with the safer, much safer, dried flower.
- eldritch_4ier 4y ago
  Why? I'm pretty clear here: I'm for responsible weed use, but I think legalizing weed will lead to massive irresponsible use
BatteryMountain 4y ago
Checkout the Huberman episode about cannabis, specifically the part about pregnant women using cannabis during pregnancy like its no big deal. Resonates with your comment.
kmonsen 4y ago
I don't really disagree but my counter argument is that I think breaking the law should be meaningful and enforcement should not be random and perhaps politically motivated. Weed in particular has been used to stop and search cars with minority populations due to the police officer claiming to smell it. Also the US has a culture of having too many laws that are selectively enforced (IMHO but I think this is widely held belief).
saiya-jin 4y ago
Not really grokking your comment, a lot of inconsistency. You point to deeper issues in American society, and you are very much fine with playing endless whack-a-mole with its symptoms manifesting left and right instead of dealing with issue like grown ups do - attack the underlying problem, instead of seeing endless spiral of growing issues that it brings. You base this on extreme idea that when weed is legalized it will be literally everywhere, which is incorrect, outdated and the very source of utter republican clusterfuck that War on drugs was and is. Hasn't this produced enough evil in whole world so we should wise up for a change?

wishfish 4y ago

We have something very close to national legalization right now. Fortunately, it seems to be flying under the radar so red state legislatures aren't acting against it. By "legalization", I'm talking mostly about THC edibles. There are now hemp-based edibles which contain as much THC as traditional MJ edibles. Legal in all states. Achieved thanks to the Hemp Act and some creative processing of hemp. It's an interesting wrinkle to this whole mess.

worik 4y ago
If there are any dangerous ways to consume cannabis, then eating it has to rank highly. Not actually seriously dangerous to one's health to eat cannabis on purpose. But extremely disconcerting and discombobulating if consumed accidentally. Even on purpose it is easy to overdose. Not a lethal overdose but still deeply unpleasant. Given that there are very few problems with smoking it (surprisingly, there should be, but the data is quite clear - few risks) this really demonstrates the moral depravity of drug laws.