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Some good old Torvalds roasting going on in that thread.

by _Algernon_ 4y ago

solardev 4y ago
Yikes. I didn't know the dude was so prickly. Glad I'm not a contributor.
- __alexs 4y ago
  He's mellowed a bit as the years have gone on but yeah, he sure is a character.
- _Algernon_ 4y ago
  I do find them fun to read, but yeah being the target of one must be rough. Though it probably contributes to the quality of the Linux kernel.
- Longhanks 4y ago
  With his attitude, the kernel has reached enormous market share, excellent performance, high quality and worldwide adoption. I’m sure it will be fine without your contribution.
  - solardev 4y ago
    Lol yes I'm sure it'll be fine too. It made me lose some respect for him, but he couldn't care less what I think lol.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    No one knows "what would have been different", but it is very possible that the success happened not because, but despite of Linus rants. And if he would have had self reflexion earlier, I might now be able to recommend Linux to non tech people and enjoy a laptop without suspend and hibernation issues. Just a theory.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      No, Linus has a way of seeing straight through bullshit to the heart of the matter. You may not like that how he expresses himself, but a part of that is making it very clear where the bullshit is. For example, his take on security bug prioritization. His argument is that all bugs have potential security ramifications in the kernel, therefore calling something a security bug is not useful, it's just a bug. "Security people" want special treatment of their reports and he refused to give it to them.
      - solardev 4y ago
        I don't doubt that Linus is a genius. What I wonder if he's driving away other potentially valuable contributors (not myself, but other geniuses) with his tone. It's not like Linux never has security vulnerabilities, and if he's actively driving people away with his hostility... what happens when someone actually catches a mistake of his but doesn't want to deal with reporting it to him because he's so thorny? What happens when he decides to retire or dies? Is Linux going to fragment into petty warlordism because the only core contributors who managed to thrive in that atmosphere were equally tough-skinned and vicious? It reminds me of dictators' empires that collapse after the strongman goes away, unless another strongman can immediately take over and consolidate power. I'm not saying that he needs to be all nice and accommodating and accept crap PRs all over the place, but there are ways of gentling correcting people and encouraging them to fix mistakes while not driving them away altogether. Some of those might've turned out to be valuable contributors with some coaching, rather than being turned off altogether. Now I wonder how much of the abysmal adoption of Linux on the desktop is because of hostile attitudes like that. Could Linux have altogether obliterated Windows and macOS if it had a more welcoming, inclusive community that took different perspectives and user needs into account? Maybe they never wanted that, preferring a clear kernel/userspace separation? I dunno. Of course Linux is super valuable on servers and in embedded devices, but how much of its greater potential was limited by the arrogance and hostility of one man? shrug On the other hand, look at more "community-driven" FOSS efforts that inevitably fragment and diverge from their original core mission... the modern Web is a mess (looking at you, ECMAscript), Mozilla has its tentacles everywhere while Firefox goes down the gutter, Wikipedia was taken over by a cabal of elite admins that care more about power than users, the BSDs are mostly niche now... maybe there IS an argument to be made for a strongman, dictatorial vision? Just food for thought.
squeaky-clean 4y ago
Ironically his rant about why authors should do the line-breaking instead of your text renderer is really frustrating to read because of all the seemingly random line breaks throughout his comment.

Some good old Torvalds roasting going on in that thread.

solardev 4y ago

Yikes. I didn't know the dude was so prickly. Glad I'm not a contributor.

__alexs 4y ago
He's mellowed a bit as the years have gone on but yeah, he sure is a character.
_Algernon_ 4y ago
I do find them fun to read, but yeah being the target of one must be rough. Though it probably contributes to the quality of the Linux kernel.
Longhanks 4y ago
With his attitude, the kernel has reached enormous market share, excellent performance, high quality and worldwide adoption. I’m sure it will be fine without your contribution.
- solardev 4y ago
  Lol yes I'm sure it'll be fine too. It made me lose some respect for him, but he couldn't care less what I think lol.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  No one knows "what would have been different", but it is very possible that the success happened not because, but despite of Linus rants. And if he would have had self reflexion earlier, I might now be able to recommend Linux to non tech people and enjoy a laptop without suspend and hibernation issues. Just a theory.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    No, Linus has a way of seeing straight through bullshit to the heart of the matter. You may not like that how he expresses himself, but a part of that is making it very clear where the bullshit is. For example, his take on security bug prioritization. His argument is that all bugs have potential security ramifications in the kernel, therefore calling something a security bug is not useful, it's just a bug. "Security people" want special treatment of their reports and he refused to give it to them.
    - solardev 4y ago
      I don't doubt that Linus is a genius. What I wonder if he's driving away other potentially valuable contributors (not myself, but other geniuses) with his tone. It's not like Linux never has security vulnerabilities, and if he's actively driving people away with his hostility... what happens when someone actually catches a mistake of his but doesn't want to deal with reporting it to him because he's so thorny? What happens when he decides to retire or dies? Is Linux going to fragment into petty warlordism because the only core contributors who managed to thrive in that atmosphere were equally tough-skinned and vicious? It reminds me of dictators' empires that collapse after the strongman goes away, unless another strongman can immediately take over and consolidate power. I'm not saying that he needs to be all nice and accommodating and accept crap PRs all over the place, but there are ways of gentling correcting people and encouraging them to fix mistakes while not driving them away altogether. Some of those might've turned out to be valuable contributors with some coaching, rather than being turned off altogether. Now I wonder how much of the abysmal adoption of Linux on the desktop is because of hostile attitudes like that. Could Linux have altogether obliterated Windows and macOS if it had a more welcoming, inclusive community that took different perspectives and user needs into account? Maybe they never wanted that, preferring a clear kernel/userspace separation? I dunno. Of course Linux is super valuable on servers and in embedded devices, but how much of its greater potential was limited by the arrogance and hostility of one man? shrug On the other hand, look at more "community-driven" FOSS efforts that inevitably fragment and diverge from their original core mission... the modern Web is a mess (looking at you, ECMAscript), Mozilla has its tentacles everywhere while Firefox goes down the gutter, Wikipedia was taken over by a cabal of elite admins that care more about power than users, the BSDs are mostly niche now... maybe there IS an argument to be made for a strongman, dictatorial vision? Just food for thought.

squeaky-clean 4y ago

Ironically his rant about why authors should do the line-breaking instead of your text renderer is really frustrating to read because of all the seemingly random line breaks throughout his comment.