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People are doing the math. If you make enough money in California you pay 10% of your income in taxes. First of all, what do you get from that 10% you pay that

People are doing the math. If you make enough money in California you pay 10% of your income in taxes. First of all, what do you get from that 10% you pay that don't get in other states with lower or no income taxes? For the people paying the taxes the answer is not much. People also fail to account for the fact that the 10% they are paying is 10% of their GROSS income, not net after federal taxes. So if you are already paying 30% of your income in taxes that 10% can be a material increase in the quality of your life. It's the equivalent of receiving 16% more net income. Also subtract what you pay in increased food prices and increased housing costs you will be saving much much more by leaving CA. People in California seem to believe that other parts of the country with lower taxes are hell on earth, they aren't. When I moved to San Francisco, I had many conversations with people denigrating my home state of Florida. In retrospect I can see this for what it was, a coping mechanism for having to live in such a terrible place and pay an absurd amount of money for the privilege of doing so. The reason California has seen such economic success can be attributed to proximity to the fastest growing economies and largest manufacturing hubs in the past 30 years and a little luck. If you really need to live on the west coast, Washington state is a much better option.

BeetleB 4y ago
People inflate the amount of state income tax they have to pay in California. Yes the rates are high but so are the deductions. Some years ago I had to deal with California income tax for various reasons. I think at that time you had to earn over 50K to hit 9% marginal. In my state you hit that at about 16K. And this is after deductions where California had a ton more. I believe one needed an income of over 100K before the amount they paid in taxes exceeded that of my state.
- friedman23 4y ago
  I think overall taxes are undercounted in California because the state taxes absolutely everything. California has the highest income tax and highest sales tax in the US. Throw in the grocery bag taxes, and all the other random taxes in that state you are just paying an absurd amount for nothing.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    California has the highest income tax only if you earn a lot. For most earners it definitely is not the highest income tax state. Median household income is $84 K in California. The tax rate is only 6%. And in reality it's less due to having more deductions. Contrast with Oregon where the tax rate is almost 9% for anything over 10K. California ranks 9th for overall tax burden. And property tax is ridiculously low, although that is offset by the high property values. As a random data point: In my state, I got zero tax benefit for having a kid - and my household income is under $200K. I'm too "rich". I haven't checked, but I'm sure in California I'd get some deduction for the kid.
    - Acrobatic_Road 4y ago
      You need to factor in local taxes as well. California cities top the charts for sales tax. A lot of these overall tax burden rankings miss that!
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > You need to factor in local taxes as well. Sure, tax burden rankings usually aggregate state and local taxes. > California cities top the charts for sales tax. The maximum combined local sales tax rate in California is 3% (There's a 7.25% state rate, on which local district rates can be added to a maximum of 10.25%). No California cities are in the top 50 for sales tax in the US. [0] > A lot of these overall tax burden rankings miss that! It is certainly possible that some might, and its always important to check the methodology, but of those with disclosed methodology, I can't recall encountering the problem. [0] https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/highest-salestax-cities https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/highest-salestax-cities
        Acrobatic_Road 4y ago
        The maximum state+local sales tax rate in California is 10.75% not 10.25%. Wikipedia lists 68 jurisdictions in California with effective sales tax rates greater than or equal to 10%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_California#Local_jurisdictions_with_at_least_10.00%_combined_sales_tax_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_California#Local_j... Nationwide (as of 2021), three out of five of the cities with the highest effective sales taxes are in California. Californian cities are very much over-represented on this list. https://taxfoundation.org/sales-tax-rates-by-city-2021/#Highest https://taxfoundation.org/sales-tax-rates-by-city-2021/#High...
kirillbobyrev 4y ago
The problem is that there is nowhere near as many SWE jobs in other states as in Bay Area. I just moved to the Bay from Munich and I miss Germany a lot, but the career opportunities are here in California. Admittedly, I don’t enjoy my life as much as I did in Munich where I could walk, cycle and enjoy great city life. However, I knew all that before I moved here and it was a calculated decision: the career opportunities I have here are way better than anywhere in the world. If I could live somewhere else and take the career prospects with me, I would definitely consider it. But remote work is not as available as people predicted and IMO it also takes away from the ability to grow in the company in many ways. Yea, California is overpriced and has many problems, but if one saves here enough then moving anywhere with plenty of savings is very comfortable in the future. There’s nothing wrong with willing to live in other places but there’s a good reason people move to California.
- friedman23 4y ago
  Why do you think I moved there myself? The jobs didn't exist anywhere else. Thankfully that's changing. If you are a valuable employee, one trick you can do is after working at a company for a year ask them to let you work remotely. If you are good they will let you. Additionally, I think companies and investors are catching on. If I give a company $100 million I don't want $10 million to go to avoidable state income taxes and another $20 million to go into landlord pockets via inflated rent prices (commercial and residential), I want it to go into the business.
sidlls 4y ago
I lived in Florida for a while. Between the ultra-conservative retirees and the over-representation of the tragically hilarious on-point stereotypical poor white rural southerner I thought it was an awful place to live. I get a lot of value for the taxes I pay in California: schools that aren't prohibited from discussing certain scientific topics ("climate change") and that aren't outing LGBQTP+ kids to other kids' parents in letters, for one example. Anyone who holds up Florida is a positive place to move to instantly loses credibility to me.
- friedman23 4y ago
  Ok, so you think being in a bubble with people that agree with you is worth 16% of your income a year. Meaning if you work 30 years you need to work 4.8 years longer to retire. This doesn't take into account investment returns.
  - sidlls 4y ago
    I think earning 1.5X - 3X the wage for the same job as one would in Florida overcomes the tax and COL burden in most cases for which this discussion is applicable. The lowest economic tiers are another matter: but their mobility is limited anyway. Edit: also, bubble? In what sense? Tech? Sure: there's definitely an assumption about the use and understanding of tech here. Politically? Hardly--this place is an oddball mix of libertarianism, hand-wringing liberalism, apathy, and tons more. It's also not a cultural bubble; the exact opposite in fact, especially compared to Florida.
- fundad 4y ago
  This is important, politics isn’t just about talking-points on cable news or who makes your car.

BeetleB 4y ago

People inflate the amount of state income tax they have to pay in California. Yes the rates are high but so are the deductions. Some years ago I had to deal with California income tax for various reasons. I think at that time you had to earn over 50K to hit 9% marginal. In my state you hit that at about 16K. And this is after deductions where California had a ton more. I believe one needed an income of over 100K before the amount they paid in taxes exceeded that of my state.

friedman23 4y ago
I think overall taxes are undercounted in California because the state taxes absolutely everything. California has the highest income tax and highest sales tax in the US. Throw in the grocery bag taxes, and all the other random taxes in that state you are just paying an absurd amount for nothing.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  California has the highest income tax only if you earn a lot. For most earners it definitely is not the highest income tax state. Median household income is $84 K in California. The tax rate is only 6%. And in reality it's less due to having more deductions. Contrast with Oregon where the tax rate is almost 9% for anything over 10K. California ranks 9th for overall tax burden. And property tax is ridiculously low, although that is offset by the high property values. As a random data point: In my state, I got zero tax benefit for having a kid - and my household income is under $200K. I'm too "rich". I haven't checked, but I'm sure in California I'd get some deduction for the kid.
  - Acrobatic_Road 4y ago
    You need to factor in local taxes as well. California cities top the charts for sales tax. A lot of these overall tax burden rankings miss that!
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > You need to factor in local taxes as well. Sure, tax burden rankings usually aggregate state and local taxes. > California cities top the charts for sales tax. The maximum combined local sales tax rate in California is 3% (There's a 7.25% state rate, on which local district rates can be added to a maximum of 10.25%). No California cities are in the top 50 for sales tax in the US. [0] > A lot of these overall tax burden rankings miss that! It is certainly possible that some might, and its always important to check the methodology, but of those with disclosed methodology, I can't recall encountering the problem. [0] https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/highest-salestax-cities https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/highest-salestax-cities
      - Acrobatic_Road 4y ago
        The maximum state+local sales tax rate in California is 10.75% not 10.25%. Wikipedia lists 68 jurisdictions in California with effective sales tax rates greater than or equal to 10%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_California#Local_jurisdictions_with_at_least_10.00%_combined_sales_tax_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_California#Local_j... Nationwide (as of 2021), three out of five of the cities with the highest effective sales taxes are in California. Californian cities are very much over-represented on this list. https://taxfoundation.org/sales-tax-rates-by-city-2021/#Highest https://taxfoundation.org/sales-tax-rates-by-city-2021/#High...

kirillbobyrev 4y ago

The problem is that there is nowhere near as many SWE jobs in other states as in Bay Area. I just moved to the Bay from Munich and I miss Germany a lot, but the career opportunities are here in California. Admittedly, I don’t enjoy my life as much as I did in Munich where I could walk, cycle and enjoy great city life. However, I knew all that before I moved here and it was a calculated decision: the career opportunities I have here are way better than anywhere in the world. If I could live somewhere else and take the career prospects with me, I would definitely consider it. But remote work is not as available as people predicted and IMO it also takes away from the ability to grow in the company in many ways. Yea, California is overpriced and has many problems, but if one saves here enough then moving anywhere with plenty of savings is very comfortable in the future. There’s nothing wrong with willing to live in other places but there’s a good reason people move to California.

friedman23 4y ago
Why do you think I moved there myself? The jobs didn't exist anywhere else. Thankfully that's changing. If you are a valuable employee, one trick you can do is after working at a company for a year ask them to let you work remotely. If you are good they will let you. Additionally, I think companies and investors are catching on. If I give a company $100 million I don't want $10 million to go to avoidable state income taxes and another $20 million to go into landlord pockets via inflated rent prices (commercial and residential), I want it to go into the business.

sidlls 4y ago

I lived in Florida for a while. Between the ultra-conservative retirees and the over-representation of the tragically hilarious on-point stereotypical poor white rural southerner I thought it was an awful place to live. I get a lot of value for the taxes I pay in California: schools that aren't prohibited from discussing certain scientific topics ("climate change") and that aren't outing LGBQTP+ kids to other kids' parents in letters, for one example. Anyone who holds up Florida is a positive place to move to instantly loses credibility to me.

friedman23 4y ago
Ok, so you think being in a bubble with people that agree with you is worth 16% of your income a year. Meaning if you work 30 years you need to work 4.8 years longer to retire. This doesn't take into account investment returns.
- sidlls 4y ago
  I think earning 1.5X - 3X the wage for the same job as one would in Florida overcomes the tax and COL burden in most cases for which this discussion is applicable. The lowest economic tiers are another matter: but their mobility is limited anyway. Edit: also, bubble? In what sense? Tech? Sure: there's definitely an assumption about the use and understanding of tech here. Politically? Hardly--this place is an oddball mix of libertarianism, hand-wringing liberalism, apathy, and tons more. It's also not a cultural bubble; the exact opposite in fact, especially compared to Florida.
fundad 4y ago
This is important, politics isn’t just about talking-points on cable news or who makes your car.