4 ms·

America’s top export in 2011 was . . . fuel?

23 points by acak 15y ago

ams6110 15y ago
Aircraft, motor vehicles, vacuum tubes and telecom equipment were next on the list of top exports. Vacuum tubes??!?
- Kadin 15y ago
  Makes (a small amount of) sense -- the only high-quality tubes I've ever seen were either manufactured in the U.S., Europe, or in various parts of the former USSR; Chinese tubes have a very poor reputation at least in audio circles. Perhaps this is because nobody ever bothered to put a serious effort into outsourcing vacuum-tube production, in the same way ICs and microprocessors have been outsourced, leaving the remaining production still domestic? Or maybe it's just that there are huge stockpiles of the things sitting around in the U.S. and they're slowly being sold off, both for domestic consumption and export, but the net result is an export of tubes? That wouldn't be hard to believe either.
  - kamagmar 15y ago
    According to this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-shift-for-gas-guzzling-nation-fuels-are-top-us-export-oil-imports-still-worlds-highest/2011/12/30/gIQAw0A5QP_story.html?tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost&tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-shift-for-gas-guz... we exported $37.1B worth of vacuum tubes last year. I could be wrong but that amount seems wildly implausible. Could the category actually be "Vacuum tubes, etc." where "etc" is semiconductors?
    - ams6110 15y ago
      The only things I really know of that would still use vacuum tubes are esoteric high-end audiophile amplifiers, and some "old school" guitar amps (Marshall, Hiwatt, etc). Is there really that big a market? Are they used for anything else?
      - arctangent 15y ago
        Wikipedia lists some other modern uses including (most unexpectedly) in particle accelerators: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube#Vacuum_tubes_in_the_21st_century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube#Vacuum_tubes_in_the...
      - stan_rogers 15y ago
        You are overlooking things like magnetrons, x-ray tubes, photomultipliers, CRTs (which still have a lot of applications outside of the video display sphere), krytons and so forth. It's not all about diodes, triodes, tetrodes and pentodes.
      - sliverstorm 15y ago
        One of my professors told me a few years ago that tubes were still used heavily in high-power commercial radio stations. Could be dated info though.
      - chrischen 15y ago
        I believe NORAD computers still use vacuum tubes.
    - mikeash 15y ago
      My money is on someone getting "facts" off Wikipedia or similar without doing any smell testing on the numbers.
- xxqs 15y ago
  X-ray emitters use vacuum tubes. That means, every doctor's office has at least one. I guess that the radars and other high-power radio equipment still uses tubes too
- cperciva 15y ago
  Maybe in the form of CRTs?
- corprew 15y ago
  I would guess that someone switched NAICS code 33411 "Computer and Peripheral Equipment Manufacturing" for NAICS code 334411 "Electron Tube Manufacturing," but that's just a guess.
nevinera 15y ago
We exported a lot of it straight into the ocean!
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
mbell 15y ago
I'm reading the U.S. Census Bureau report from October [0] and I can't for the life of me figure out where these numbers are coming from, they seem to be flat out wrong. Using NAICS product categories the "top 5" through October appear to be: 1) Transportation Equipment - 164.79 billion 2) Chemicals - 156.7 billion 3) Non-Electrical Machinery - 118.4 billion 4) Computers and Electrical Products - 102.4 billion 5) Petroleum and Coal Products - 81.26 billion Am I reading this report wrong? [0] http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/ft900.pdf http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_pr...
- nostromo 15y ago
  They could both be correct; it depends on how you slice it. For example, the article notes, "Aircraft, motor vehicles, vacuum tubes and telecom equipment were next on the list of top exports." In your list, both aircraft and motor vehicles are are grouped under "transportation equipment," making it a much larger group.
  - mbell 15y ago
    Understood, but nothing seems to add up to the given numbers. Nor do the categories used seem to be based on any standard I can find. Its pretty easy to make almost anything you want appear to be the "biggest" if you can arbitrarily manipulate the category system used.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  "Computers and electrical products - ~100b" I wonder if they count iPads and iPhones as exports or imports. If exports, that means a massive chunk of America's consumer electronics exports are due solely to apple.
luser001 15y ago
Are these really exports to other countries, or do shipments intended for or directly to US forces in Iraq, Afghanistan etc also count as exports?
tokenadult 15y ago
This is a very recent trend reversal. An earlier story I saw in the print edition of the Wall Street Journal discussed some of the background to the very large recent increase in exports from the United States to other countries of refined petroleum products that count as "fuel." Some more current stories http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0103-fuel-exports-20111231,0,366760.story http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0103-fuel-expo... http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-31/united-states-export/52298812/1 http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-1... http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/the-2011-argus-americas-crude-summit-held-in-houston-last-januarywas-named-life-after-macondo-it-was-focused-almost-entire.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/the-2011-ar... http://www.ogj.com/articles/2011/12/market-watch-oil-makes-small-gains-gas-price-continues-decline.html http://www.ogj.com/articles/2011/12/market-watch-oil-makes-s... give more background on the rise in United States fuel exports and when the trend became apparent to federal government energy policy officials.
waterside81 15y ago
Oil from the tar sands in Alberta is sent to the US to be refined and then sold so while the numbers might say one thing, the truth is a bit murkier.
- cpeterso 15y ago
  And the Keystone Pipeline project, which is supposed to "create American jobs" (for a couple hundred temp workers) and "improve America's energy independence" (through oil exports), is designed to help move Alberta oil to US refineries and shipping ports on the Gulf Coast.

23 points by acak 15y ago

ams6110 15y ago

Aircraft, motor vehicles, vacuum tubes and telecom equipment were next on the list of top exports. Vacuum tubes??!?

Kadin 15y ago
Makes (a small amount of) sense -- the only high-quality tubes I've ever seen were either manufactured in the U.S., Europe, or in various parts of the former USSR; Chinese tubes have a very poor reputation at least in audio circles. Perhaps this is because nobody ever bothered to put a serious effort into outsourcing vacuum-tube production, in the same way ICs and microprocessors have been outsourced, leaving the remaining production still domestic? Or maybe it's just that there are huge stockpiles of the things sitting around in the U.S. and they're slowly being sold off, both for domestic consumption and export, but the net result is an export of tubes? That wouldn't be hard to believe either.
- kamagmar 15y ago
  According to this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-shift-for-gas-guzzling-nation-fuels-are-top-us-export-oil-imports-still-worlds-highest/2011/12/30/gIQAw0A5QP_story.html?tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost&tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-shift-for-gas-guz... we exported $37.1B worth of vacuum tubes last year. I could be wrong but that amount seems wildly implausible. Could the category actually be "Vacuum tubes, etc." where "etc" is semiconductors?
  - ams6110 15y ago
    The only things I really know of that would still use vacuum tubes are esoteric high-end audiophile amplifiers, and some "old school" guitar amps (Marshall, Hiwatt, etc). Is there really that big a market? Are they used for anything else?
    - arctangent 15y ago
      Wikipedia lists some other modern uses including (most unexpectedly) in particle accelerators: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube#Vacuum_tubes_in_the_21st_century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube#Vacuum_tubes_in_the...
    - stan_rogers 15y ago
      You are overlooking things like magnetrons, x-ray tubes, photomultipliers, CRTs (which still have a lot of applications outside of the video display sphere), krytons and so forth. It's not all about diodes, triodes, tetrodes and pentodes.
    - sliverstorm 15y ago
      One of my professors told me a few years ago that tubes were still used heavily in high-power commercial radio stations. Could be dated info though.
    - chrischen 15y ago
      I believe NORAD computers still use vacuum tubes.
  - mikeash 15y ago
    My money is on someone getting "facts" off Wikipedia or similar without doing any smell testing on the numbers.
xxqs 15y ago
X-ray emitters use vacuum tubes. That means, every doctor's office has at least one. I guess that the radars and other high-power radio equipment still uses tubes too
cperciva 15y ago
Maybe in the form of CRTs?
corprew 15y ago
I would guess that someone switched NAICS code 33411 "Computer and Peripheral Equipment Manufacturing" for NAICS code 334411 "Electron Tube Manufacturing," but that's just a guess.

nevinera 15y ago

We exported a lot of it straight into the ocean!

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

mbell 15y ago

I'm reading the U.S. Census Bureau report from October [0] and I can't for the life of me figure out where these numbers are coming from, they seem to be flat out wrong. Using NAICS product categories the "top 5" through October appear to be: 1) Transportation Equipment - 164.79 billion 2) Chemicals - 156.7 billion 3) Non-Electrical Machinery - 118.4 billion 4) Computers and Electrical Products - 102.4 billion 5) Petroleum and Coal Products - 81.26 billion Am I reading this report wrong? [0] http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/ft900.pdf http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_pr...

nostromo 15y ago
They could both be correct; it depends on how you slice it. For example, the article notes, "Aircraft, motor vehicles, vacuum tubes and telecom equipment were next on the list of top exports." In your list, both aircraft and motor vehicles are are grouped under "transportation equipment," making it a much larger group.
- mbell 15y ago
  Understood, but nothing seems to add up to the given numbers. Nor do the categories used seem to be based on any standard I can find. Its pretty easy to make almost anything you want appear to be the "biggest" if you can arbitrarily manipulate the category system used.
redthrowaway 15y ago
"Computers and electrical products - ~100b" I wonder if they count iPads and iPhones as exports or imports. If exports, that means a massive chunk of America's consumer electronics exports are due solely to apple.

luser001 15y ago

Are these really exports to other countries, or do shipments intended for or directly to US forces in Iraq, Afghanistan etc also count as exports?

tokenadult 15y ago

This is a very recent trend reversal. An earlier story I saw in the print edition of the Wall Street Journal discussed some of the background to the very large recent increase in exports from the United States to other countries of refined petroleum products that count as "fuel." Some more current stories http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0103-fuel-exports-20111231,0,366760.story http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0103-fuel-expo... http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-31/united-states-export/52298812/1 http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-1... http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/the-2011-argus-americas-crude-summit-held-in-houston-last-januarywas-named-life-after-macondo-it-was-focused-almost-entire.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/the-2011-ar... http://www.ogj.com/articles/2011/12/market-watch-oil-makes-small-gains-gas-price-continues-decline.html http://www.ogj.com/articles/2011/12/market-watch-oil-makes-s... give more background on the rise in United States fuel exports and when the trend became apparent to federal government energy policy officials.

waterside81 15y ago

Oil from the tar sands in Alberta is sent to the US to be refined and then sold so while the numbers might say one thing, the truth is a bit murkier.

cpeterso 15y ago
And the Keystone Pipeline project, which is supposed to "create American jobs" (for a couple hundred temp workers) and "improve America's energy independence" (through oil exports), is designed to help move Alberta oil to US refineries and shipping ports on the Gulf Coast.