3 ms·

There are also lots of references to being "raided by the feds" which I don't understand. Is it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state lev

by cm2187 4y ago

There are also lots of references to being "raided by the feds" which I don't understand. Is it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level?

jliptzin 4y ago
Yes
- galleywest200 4y ago
  While still federally illegal, they have not done these raids regularly for years. In 2015 a judge ordered the federal government to stop going after medical places in legal states [1]. If I recall correctly the Obama Admin ordered the DEA to stop busting shops in recreational legal states too. I am unsure if the GOP's recent tenure in the Whitehouse reversed these common sense ideas. [1] https://time.com/4080110/dea-medical-marijuana-california-ruling/ https://time.com/4080110/dea-medical-marijuana-california-ru...
  - trillic 4y ago
    45 didn't roll that back he made a deal with the Dems to get some judges passed in exchange for not killing intrastate commerce of Cannabis [1] https://hightimes.com/news/trump-makes-deal-protect-states-legal-cannabis/ https://hightimes.com/news/trump-makes-deal-protect-states-l...
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Jeff Sessions, Trump's first AG, issued this memo purporting to reverse thr policy https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-issues-memo-marijuana-enforcement https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-issues-mem... However, federal law since 2014 has prohibited expenditures of federal funds to interfere with state medical cannabis laws, which limits what the executive can do (on its face, it only applies to state medical-use laws, though, so in principal federal enforcement against state-legal not-purely-medical marijuana might be viable.)
eyelidlessness 4y ago
The concise “yes” is correct, but a more explanatory answer might be helpful. Cannabis is still a schedule 1 substance by federal law. Almost all federal jurisdiction in state matters is derived from the interstate commerce clause in the constitution. When the first states passed legalization measures, the DOJ issued a memo (Cole) basically saying they would not intervene in states with well defined rules for tracking cannabis sales to prevent product crossing state lines. Credit card processors and most banks are either not willing or not allowed to process electronic transactions for cannabis because they do tend to cross state lines.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  I don’t understand why this has been downvoted. Everything I said is both factually correct and based in experience from working in the industry for several years.
AdrianB1 4y ago
It is still a federal offence and even if there are no raids, there are indirect fights, including civil asset forfeiture or even raiding the armored transports that carry the cash from the sales. Feds are harassing the state-legal merchants by targeting the money movement at any level.
akiselev 4y ago
They’re still liable for paying taxes, which they do largely by mailing the IRS shoeboxes full of cash. By paying taxes they’re essentially admitting to a felony to the US government, which makes them trivially easy to raid. That said, raids are relatively rare now due to executive order and the Oakland mess. In 2012 the DEA raided Oaksterdam [1] without properly notifying the Oakland PD, tying them up right as a local college was getting shot up [2]. It was a minor scandal that collapsed support for the DEA on the west coast and they haven’t done much cannabis enforcement since. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam_University#Raid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam_University#Raid [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oikos_University_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oikos_University_shooting
- rosnd 4y ago
  > By paying taxes they’re essentially admitting to a felony to the US government, which makes them trivially easy to raid. That's not how it works, taxpayers enjoy fifth amendment protections against self incrimination. IRS can't share this information with other LE without a warrant anyway.
  - ElevenLathe 4y ago
    It's also a little beside the point. Dispensaries operate openly. DEA can just Google "weed" and they will get a list of places to raid.
satellites 4y ago
Yes. It’s farcical at this point.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level? Yes, though there is a federal policy against most enforcement activity where use is allowed by state law. But, yes, its still illegal, and those making lots of money in (or even as major investors in firms in) the industry are violating the drug kingpin statute and, were the non-enforcement policy to be removed, coild suddenly find themselves facing 20+ year, or life, sentences in federal prison. This has a significant effect on who is in the industry and how they conduct business.

by cm2187 4y ago

There are also lots of references to being "raided by the feds" which I don't understand. Is it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level?

jliptzin 4y ago

Yes

galleywest200 4y ago
While still federally illegal, they have not done these raids regularly for years. In 2015 a judge ordered the federal government to stop going after medical places in legal states [1]. If I recall correctly the Obama Admin ordered the DEA to stop busting shops in recreational legal states too. I am unsure if the GOP's recent tenure in the Whitehouse reversed these common sense ideas. [1] https://time.com/4080110/dea-medical-marijuana-california-ruling/ https://time.com/4080110/dea-medical-marijuana-california-ru...
- trillic 4y ago
  45 didn't roll that back he made a deal with the Dems to get some judges passed in exchange for not killing intrastate commerce of Cannabis [1] https://hightimes.com/news/trump-makes-deal-protect-states-legal-cannabis/ https://hightimes.com/news/trump-makes-deal-protect-states-l...
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  Jeff Sessions, Trump's first AG, issued this memo purporting to reverse thr policy https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-issues-memo-marijuana-enforcement https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-issues-mem... However, federal law since 2014 has prohibited expenditures of federal funds to interfere with state medical cannabis laws, which limits what the executive can do (on its face, it only applies to state medical-use laws, though, so in principal federal enforcement against state-legal not-purely-medical marijuana might be viable.)

eyelidlessness 4y ago

The concise “yes” is correct, but a more explanatory answer might be helpful. Cannabis is still a schedule 1 substance by federal law. Almost all federal jurisdiction in state matters is derived from the interstate commerce clause in the constitution. When the first states passed legalization measures, the DOJ issued a memo (Cole) basically saying they would not intervene in states with well defined rules for tracking cannabis sales to prevent product crossing state lines. Credit card processors and most banks are either not willing or not allowed to process electronic transactions for cannabis because they do tend to cross state lines.

eyelidlessness 4y ago
I don’t understand why this has been downvoted. Everything I said is both factually correct and based in experience from working in the industry for several years.

AdrianB1 4y ago

It is still a federal offence and even if there are no raids, there are indirect fights, including civil asset forfeiture or even raiding the armored transports that carry the cash from the sales. Feds are harassing the state-legal merchants by targeting the money movement at any level.

akiselev 4y ago

They’re still liable for paying taxes, which they do largely by mailing the IRS shoeboxes full of cash. By paying taxes they’re essentially admitting to a felony to the US government, which makes them trivially easy to raid. That said, raids are relatively rare now due to executive order and the Oakland mess. In 2012 the DEA raided Oaksterdam [1] without properly notifying the Oakland PD, tying them up right as a local college was getting shot up [2]. It was a minor scandal that collapsed support for the DEA on the west coast and they haven’t done much cannabis enforcement since. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam_University#Raid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam_University#Raid [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oikos_University_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oikos_University_shooting

rosnd 4y ago
> By paying taxes they’re essentially admitting to a felony to the US government, which makes them trivially easy to raid. That's not how it works, taxpayers enjoy fifth amendment protections against self incrimination. IRS can't share this information with other LE without a warrant anyway.
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  It's also a little beside the point. Dispensaries operate openly. DEA can just Google "weed" and they will get a list of places to raid.

satellites 4y ago

Yes. It’s farcical at this point.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> it still a federal offense even though it is legal at the state level? Yes, though there is a federal policy against most enforcement activity where use is allowed by state law. But, yes, its still illegal, and those making lots of money in (or even as major investors in firms in) the industry are violating the drug kingpin statute and, were the non-enforcement policy to be removed, coild suddenly find themselves facing 20+ year, or life, sentences in federal prison. This has a significant effect on who is in the industry and how they conduct business.