6 ms·

He was talking about humans.

by 725686 4y ago

rich_sasha 4y ago
Humans don't have lidar either.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  And birds don't have jet engine, yet nobody is trying to replicate flight by wing flapping as a bird.
  - gcanyon 4y ago
    My friend, I have news for you :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBq9NcITh6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBq9NcITh6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtn4PpZEB8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtn4PpZEB8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R19QQiM5Mw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R19QQiM5Mw
bastawhiz 4y ago
Humans have stereoscopic vision Edit: I'd love to know why I'm being downvoted. Tesla cars guess depth with a neural net. Humans have the hardware for getting this data directly. Unless you either have lidar, radar, or dedicated stereoscopic cameras, you don't have real/accurate depth data. And depth data like that stops your car from plowing into white trucks.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  This is true. But most of the things perceived while driving are outside of the stereoscopic depth perception ability of humans. IIRC that stops around 20 meters or so.
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    Unless I've been driving very differently from you, most of the things that I care about the precise distance of are well within 20 meters. And moreover, it's lucky at best if my Model 3 acknowledges a car 20m away on the preview. It struggles with cars a few feet from me on the diagonal at stoplights.
- redox99 4y ago
  I didn't downvote you, but as I see it human stereoscopic vision is kind of irrelevant. If you close one eye, do you really feel like your ability to determine depth is significantly impacted? And even then, the stereo effect is basically negligible at the distances relevant for driving. A human missing one eye would have no trouble driving, except maybe for the reduced field of view.
giantrobot 4y ago
I hope not because it makes them even more wrong. Humans have a number of different sensors we use while driving.
simonh 4y ago
In which case he’s even more wrong. Humans use a whole mess of different senses while driving, including hearing, the inertial sensitivity in the inner ear, touch to feel vibrations and from the car and the wheels on the road. Plus we have a huge amount of contextual information about the meaning of what we are seeing from life experience outside driving, which no Tesla that currently exists can ever have. It’s a clever bit of snark, but absurdly wide of the mark. If that’s actuary what the Tesla engineers think, no wonder they’re failing by their own criteria so completely.
- gcanyon 4y ago
  The claim isn't that humans can drive as well using the Tesla cameras as they can in person, just that they can. That seems obviously true. The (not explicitly made) sub-claim is that an AI can make up for the lack of audio, etc. by being smarter than a human and faster than a human, better able to multi-task than a human, and completely non-distractible. That's debatable, but not impossible.
- danaris 4y ago
  ...And furthermore, the neural nets and cameras Tesla uses are vastly inferior to our brains. Just because you can argue that a neural network of some kind uses the same basic structures as our brains doesn't mean that it can come within a light-year of what our brains can actually do.

He was talking about humans.

by 725686 4y ago

He was talking about humans.

rich_sasha 4y ago

Humans don't have lidar either.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
And birds don't have jet engine, yet nobody is trying to replicate flight by wing flapping as a bird.
- gcanyon 4y ago
  My friend, I have news for you :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBq9NcITh6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBq9NcITh6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtn4PpZEB8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtn4PpZEB8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R19QQiM5Mw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R19QQiM5Mw

bastawhiz 4y ago

Humans have stereoscopic vision Edit: I'd love to know why I'm being downvoted. Tesla cars guess depth with a neural net. Humans have the hardware for getting this data directly. Unless you either have lidar, radar, or dedicated stereoscopic cameras, you don't have real/accurate depth data. And depth data like that stops your car from plowing into white trucks.

rootusrootus 4y ago
This is true. But most of the things perceived while driving are outside of the stereoscopic depth perception ability of humans. IIRC that stops around 20 meters or so.
- bastawhiz 4y ago
  Unless I've been driving very differently from you, most of the things that I care about the precise distance of are well within 20 meters. And moreover, it's lucky at best if my Model 3 acknowledges a car 20m away on the preview. It struggles with cars a few feet from me on the diagonal at stoplights.
redox99 4y ago
I didn't downvote you, but as I see it human stereoscopic vision is kind of irrelevant. If you close one eye, do you really feel like your ability to determine depth is significantly impacted? And even then, the stereo effect is basically negligible at the distances relevant for driving. A human missing one eye would have no trouble driving, except maybe for the reduced field of view.

giantrobot 4y ago

I hope not because it makes them even more wrong. Humans have a number of different sensors we use while driving.

simonh 4y ago

In which case he’s even more wrong. Humans use a whole mess of different senses while driving, including hearing, the inertial sensitivity in the inner ear, touch to feel vibrations and from the car and the wheels on the road. Plus we have a huge amount of contextual information about the meaning of what we are seeing from life experience outside driving, which no Tesla that currently exists can ever have. It’s a clever bit of snark, but absurdly wide of the mark. If that’s actuary what the Tesla engineers think, no wonder they’re failing by their own criteria so completely.

gcanyon 4y ago
The claim isn't that humans can drive as well using the Tesla cameras as they can in person, just that they can. That seems obviously true. The (not explicitly made) sub-claim is that an AI can make up for the lack of audio, etc. by being smarter than a human and faster than a human, better able to multi-task than a human, and completely non-distractible. That's debatable, but not impossible.
danaris 4y ago
...And furthermore, the neural nets and cameras Tesla uses are vastly inferior to our brains. Just because you can argue that a neural network of some kind uses the same basic structures as our brains doesn't mean that it can come within a light-year of what our brains can actually do.