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This is probably the #500 post on HN that reads "help I've been locked out of my Google account for Kafkaesque/inexplicable reasons and I have nobody to reach o

This is probably the #500 post on HN that reads "help I've been locked out of my Google account for Kafkaesque/inexplicable reasons and I have nobody to reach out to". If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. Do yourself a favour in 2023: drop Google and all the filthy excrement that they produce. There's plenty of much better alternatives, and from a purely market-based perspective Google deserves to rot in hell for all of its sins and shitty products.

coffeeblack 4y ago
This, plus if you have no Google Takeout backup.
- gatonegro 4y ago
  A few days ago I was going through an old Gmail account, and decided to get my data through Takeout. Told me it'd take a few hours, and the next day I had a link ready. Click the link, enter the password, it tells me I need a verification code that it wants to send to an address that stopped existing 15 years ago. As it turns out, Google is not sufficiently convinced that I am in fact the owner of the account, so it refuses to let me download the data. I don't feel inclined to spend time trying to figure out this nonsense, but thankfully none of the information in that account is particularly important. I'll take it as a sign that I should just move away from Google, because next time the information on an account could be actually important, and I'd be screwed.
  - blacklight 4y ago
    Takeout is a feature that Google was kind of forced to implement because of GDPR compliance. But they still try their best to make it so bad that people won't think of using it. First, getting to a point where you can actually schedule the creation of a zip takes a lot of clicking around - just to make sure that people won't bump into it unless they're explicitly searching for it. Second, the process is painfully slow (on purpose). Last time I used it was to download my YouTube subscriptions and playlists to import them into my Piped instance. Even though I only have about 100 subscriptions, and only two playlists with about 20 items each, the process took almost two days to complete. By then I had already made a script that scraped the content from their HTML (and it only took me 5 minutes), and another one that did the same but using the YouTube API. If it takes less than a second to get the playlists and subscriptions of a user, I don't see a single reason why generating a Takeout CSV with the same information should take 2 days. I was determined (and tech-savvy) enough to script my way out of it, but many users just get discouraged and give up the idea of exporting their Google data entirely.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      If you use a cloud storage provider Takeout supports (Dropbox, OneDrive, Box), it can be configured to auto export on a cadence. I have Takeout scheduled to export every two months to my Dropbox /apps path (you have to renew this schedule every year unfortunately). > Automatically create an archive of your selected data every 2 months for one year. The first archive will be created immediately. https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en
    - jsnell 4y ago
      Takeout was created in 2011, well before the GDPR existed or before there was any other kind of regulatory requirement for it.
    - gatonegro 4y ago
      I tried Takeout on my main account, and I have to say I'm surprised. Took about an hour to process and it allowed me to download everything. While I was waiting on that, I finally paid for a proper email service and migrated my domain, so I have a copy of my Gmail data and a working, Google-free email service now.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  Google takeout is horrible. It either doesn't work or partly works.
  - darkhelmet 4y ago
    I remember trying to download an archive of my email a few years ago. Hah, that was fun. I had a number of tries but each time the archive it gave me had between 20% to 50% of the total email messages. It's been unreliable for years.
Kiro 4y ago
I'm currently converting so many disgruntled LastPass users to Chrome's built-in password manager. It's fantastic and I love Google. What is your opinion on that?
- moistofreason 4y ago
  Onepassword beats both by a mile. Worth every penny.
  - sgc 4y ago
    I have been using KeePass and variants for a long time, and have never had any problems with it on a variety of devices.
- hulitu 4y ago
  > I'm currently converting so many disgruntled LastPass users to Chrome's built-in password manager. It's fantastic Some people never learn.
- grepfru_it 4y ago
  Bitwarden/vaultwarden
- macrolime 4y ago
  Did you forget a /s?
- blacklight 4y ago
  Are you aware of the fact that Chrome stores credentials in a simple SQLite database whose encryption can basically be bypassed if the user is logged into the system? https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Chrome-stores-your-username-and-passwords-in-cleartext-on-your-computer-meaning-if-someone-stole-your-computer-and-it-is-unencrypted-they-have-all-your-passwords-in-cleartext https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Chrome-stores-your-use... If you left LastPass because of its security flaws, then using Chrome's passwords is a bit like driving a scooter with a pasta pot on your head because you feel like a normal helmet is too unsafe.
- 4y ago
throw0101c 4y ago
> If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. This is mostly true for any of the free offerings. If you're paying for the '…for Business' stuff (perhaps with your own domain), then there's probably more availability for recourse and contacts (especially since they're charging your credit card, so they have some form of link to a real human being).
- tag2103 4y ago
  I've had a Google domain for several years hosting my private email, I'm migrating everything to protonmail (including my Companies) in 2023. FYI- It is the exact opposite. There is zero support without multiple support tickets, their UI is full of antipatterns. I get to pay and not only do they scan my emails (they claim they stopped that practice, sure) they also won't allow Google Workspace (formerly GSuite) to utilize features like Google Family. I have a tertiarty public account that right now I can't access because I'm travelling and have run afoul of the Google gods and in the Admin console zero way to force allow a login. And I'm paying for that wonderful granular control. I for one hope the wave of GPT based AI wipes them off the face of the internet, they are valueless. Their search is a joke now. They've been adversarial to the user community for years and reminds me the terrible taste of a monopolized- because lets face it that's what they are- ecosystem with ZERO concern or care about their end user. <insert lilly tomlin phone company skit here>
harshalizee 4y ago
But realistically how do you do it? I've stopped signing up for any new Google products for well over half a decade now. Even moved my email to protonmail. I have a little over 500 accounts tied to my Gmail over the last two decades. Moving them is a pain but still possible. The problem arises when it comes to existing accounts with byzantine financial institutions. Trying to change email addresses that are linked to you as the username is nigh impossible in many cases. Quite a few institutions won't let you use an email that comes from protonmail or a custom domain. So, many times I'm forced back into using a Gmail address to prevent a whole host off other issues
- anonymousiam 4y ago
  Your point about the inability to change your email address with certain institutions resonates with me. Some companies have no consideration for the possibility that one of their customers might need to change their primary email address. Last year I was notified by Audi that my email address had been compromised in a data breach. As the spam volume to that mailbox increased, I decided to change it. I discovered that I cannot change the email address associated with my Audi account. When I contacted their Technical Support group, they advised me to delete the whole account (which failed), and create a new one.
- _8j50 4y ago
  But it is free excrement
- nzealand 4y ago
  Financial institutions are the most frustrating when it comes to email notifications to custom domains. Often times the confirmation email comes through fine, then the email notifications fail to be sent. Luckily with all financial institutions it's easy (probably too easy) to call them up and change your email address.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  > Quite a few institutions won't let you use an email that comes from protonmail or a custom domain. So, many times I'm forced back into using a Gmail address to prevent a whole host off other issues As in, they check "if domain != 'gmail.com' { fuckyou(); }"? Or as in "they MTAs are not very good and just don't deliver email"?
joe__f 4y ago
I've been thinking to move away from Gmail for a while now, what alternatives do you suggest?
- blacklight 4y ago
  I've been using Protonmail with 3 custom domains for a few years, but I'm quite upset by the state of their bridge. They struggled a lot with IMAP compatibility, they only test it on Thunderbird, Outlook and Apple Mail before releasing it, and you can't connect to the bridge from another machine (well, you can technically set up an SSH tunnel or use socat to forward the localhost ports, but that's a hack that is not officially supported nor advised). I'm now considering switching to Fastmail or Tutanota. Or even run my own mail server. I used to do that until a couple of years ago, but I eventually got frustrated by all the dumb rules that Google and Microsoft (but mostly Microsoft) set in place to discourage people from running their own servers. However, given the amount of time that I've already spent to debug the Proton bridge and open PRs to fix their sh*t, I must acknowledge that running my own Postfix server and spending a couple of hours to set up the right DNS records would have probably saved me a lot of time (and money).
- incrudible 4y ago
  Stop answering e-mails. No, seriously.
- kornhole 4y ago
  First of all, buy your own domain from Gandi.net, hover, namecheap, or wherever you prefer. Then get an email account at a private provider who let's you use your own domain: fastmail, gandi, proton, tutanota.. As long as you keep paying for your domain registration, you are not beholden to a mail provider.
- sph 4y ago
  Fastmail with your custom domain. I am a user, I am not paid to advertise them. I do not miss Google at all. If you do not like Fastmail, still get your own domain for emails.
  - 4y ago
ScottyAdams0 4y ago
[flagged]
- MPSimmons 4y ago
  In my opinion, the issue with Google's products is not and never really has been that they're "low quality", it's that, when you DO have problems with them, there is absolutely no recourse or support option. The reason that the parent mentioned that there have been 500 support threads for someone being locked out of their Gmail (or site de-listed, or literally any other change that Google has the ability to make) is that there is no accountability or infrastructure to get support.
  - ScottyAdams0 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - kaibee 4y ago
      > Ok you’re just gonna assert something demonstrably false. Ok, I just feel a need to respond and say, no. They do customer service at Google better than any company I’ve ever seen. Did you accidentally cross over from some parallel universe or something? In your world, did Trump win in 2016 and lose in 2020? Just checking.
- harrisonpage 4y ago
  > It’s also laughably out of touch to say Google products are low quality. Have you used their Nest products? Absolute garbage.
sph 4y ago
Let me repeat it for those in the back: If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. Your email is your most prized possession. It is more important than your credit card number. At least you can call your bank if someone steals it. Also, _ALWAYS_ use your own custom domain for emails. Do not host it @someone-else.com Stop using a free service from a terrible company that can lock you out at any time and, for Heaven's sake, stop recommending it to non-technical people!
- Freak_NL 4y ago
  > […] stop recommending it to non-technical people! Excepting loved ones, there is not much of a choice is there? If you help set them up in a way that covers all the basics (personal domain, mail hosted at one of the current batch of paid, reliable parties like fastmail.com), then whenever something goes wrong, or whenever the friction to do something (anything!) is too high, it's not only your fault, but they'll lose trust in anything that doesn't look like a megacorp. The other alternative is to just point them to Apple/Microsoft/Google where everything just works¹, and when things go tits-up (which, statistically speaking, only happens to a small percentage of people) they'll just blame that faceless megacorp, knowing full well that real choice is limited to those with technical know-how (or direct access to them). I dislike the status quo, but aside from making sure I and my family aren't stuck like this, I don't see much leeway to change it. 1: It doesn't. But it will feel like it does, which is all that matters, and when it doesn't work, they'll just blame themselves.
- 650REDHAIR 4y ago
  Do you host your own email?
  - forgotpwd16 4y ago
    You can have an email with custom domain without having to host it. Though, even for that, not sure how easy will be for a non-technical person to set up. Maybe there're services making it simple.
pseudo0 4y ago
Their requirements have gotten pretty insane. I have a couple of old Gmail accounts I used for low-priority stuff (signing up for forums, mailing lists where I might get spammed) and they are both now locked out for "security reasons". I have strong passwords, correctly provided the previous password, have the recovery email, but I jump through all the hoops just for them to tell me to F off. And these are 10+ year old accounts with no issues! Thank goodness I don't use Gmail for my primary email address, I moved that ages ago.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zxcvbn4038 4y ago
That is pretty harsh. The only way to resolve problems with Google like this is to know someone on the inside that can help, or to generate enough outrage on social media that some service team someplace takes notice and reaches out to help the guy. What the poster can do in the future is enable 2FA on his Google accounts as that seems to streamline password recovery. At minimum add a phone and backup codes. Even better add a couple yubikeys (and maybe drop the phone after adding yubikeys because phones are super easy to compromise) Same goes for GitHub.
- nzealand 4y ago
  The poster can also be patient. I've been locked out of infrequently used google accounts before. Eventually the account will be unlocked. If you ignore it for a few days (also pretty harsh.)
  - blacklight 4y ago
    Some people who get locked out of their Google accounts may be unable to use their phones, access their photos, receive and send emails, or do their day-to-day work on shared documents. How can you say "just be patient and wait a couple of days"?
prlambert 4y ago
"Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Edit out swipes." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
sergiomattei 4y ago
What do you suggest? Asking honestly as a long time google user.

coffeeblack 4y ago

This, plus if you have no Google Takeout backup.

gatonegro 4y ago
A few days ago I was going through an old Gmail account, and decided to get my data through Takeout. Told me it'd take a few hours, and the next day I had a link ready. Click the link, enter the password, it tells me I need a verification code that it wants to send to an address that stopped existing 15 years ago. As it turns out, Google is not sufficiently convinced that I am in fact the owner of the account, so it refuses to let me download the data. I don't feel inclined to spend time trying to figure out this nonsense, but thankfully none of the information in that account is particularly important. I'll take it as a sign that I should just move away from Google, because next time the information on an account could be actually important, and I'd be screwed.
- blacklight 4y ago
  Takeout is a feature that Google was kind of forced to implement because of GDPR compliance. But they still try their best to make it so bad that people won't think of using it. First, getting to a point where you can actually schedule the creation of a zip takes a lot of clicking around - just to make sure that people won't bump into it unless they're explicitly searching for it. Second, the process is painfully slow (on purpose). Last time I used it was to download my YouTube subscriptions and playlists to import them into my Piped instance. Even though I only have about 100 subscriptions, and only two playlists with about 20 items each, the process took almost two days to complete. By then I had already made a script that scraped the content from their HTML (and it only took me 5 minutes), and another one that did the same but using the YouTube API. If it takes less than a second to get the playlists and subscriptions of a user, I don't see a single reason why generating a Takeout CSV with the same information should take 2 days. I was determined (and tech-savvy) enough to script my way out of it, but many users just get discouraged and give up the idea of exporting their Google data entirely.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    If you use a cloud storage provider Takeout supports (Dropbox, OneDrive, Box), it can be configured to auto export on a cadence. I have Takeout scheduled to export every two months to my Dropbox /apps path (you have to renew this schedule every year unfortunately). > Automatically create an archive of your selected data every 2 months for one year. The first archive will be created immediately. https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?hl=en
  - jsnell 4y ago
    Takeout was created in 2011, well before the GDPR existed or before there was any other kind of regulatory requirement for it.
  - gatonegro 4y ago
    I tried Takeout on my main account, and I have to say I'm surprised. Took about an hour to process and it allowed me to download everything. While I was waiting on that, I finally paid for a proper email service and migrated my domain, so I have a copy of my Gmail data and a working, Google-free email service now.
koonsolo 4y ago
Google takeout is horrible. It either doesn't work or partly works.
- darkhelmet 4y ago
  I remember trying to download an archive of my email a few years ago. Hah, that was fun. I had a number of tries but each time the archive it gave me had between 20% to 50% of the total email messages. It's been unreliable for years.

Kiro 4y ago

I'm currently converting so many disgruntled LastPass users to Chrome's built-in password manager. It's fantastic and I love Google. What is your opinion on that?

moistofreason 4y ago
Onepassword beats both by a mile. Worth every penny.
- sgc 4y ago
  I have been using KeePass and variants for a long time, and have never had any problems with it on a variety of devices.
hulitu 4y ago
> I'm currently converting so many disgruntled LastPass users to Chrome's built-in password manager. It's fantastic Some people never learn.
grepfru_it 4y ago
Bitwarden/vaultwarden
macrolime 4y ago
Did you forget a /s?
blacklight 4y ago
Are you aware of the fact that Chrome stores credentials in a simple SQLite database whose encryption can basically be bypassed if the user is logged into the system? https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Chrome-stores-your-username-and-passwords-in-cleartext-on-your-computer-meaning-if-someone-stole-your-computer-and-it-is-unencrypted-they-have-all-your-passwords-in-cleartext https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Chrome-stores-your-use... If you left LastPass because of its security flaws, then using Chrome's passwords is a bit like driving a scooter with a pasta pot on your head because you feel like a normal helmet is too unsafe.
4y ago

throw0101c 4y ago

> If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. This is mostly true for any of the free offerings. If you're paying for the '…for Business' stuff (perhaps with your own domain), then there's probably more availability for recourse and contacts (especially since they're charging your credit card, so they have some form of link to a real human being).

tag2103 4y ago
I've had a Google domain for several years hosting my private email, I'm migrating everything to protonmail (including my Companies) in 2023. FYI- It is the exact opposite. There is zero support without multiple support tickets, their UI is full of antipatterns. I get to pay and not only do they scan my emails (they claim they stopped that practice, sure) they also won't allow Google Workspace (formerly GSuite) to utilize features like Google Family. I have a tertiarty public account that right now I can't access because I'm travelling and have run afoul of the Google gods and in the Admin console zero way to force allow a login. And I'm paying for that wonderful granular control. I for one hope the wave of GPT based AI wipes them off the face of the internet, they are valueless. Their search is a joke now. They've been adversarial to the user community for years and reminds me the terrible taste of a monopolized- because lets face it that's what they are- ecosystem with ZERO concern or care about their end user. <insert lilly tomlin phone company skit here>

harshalizee 4y ago

But realistically how do you do it? I've stopped signing up for any new Google products for well over half a decade now. Even moved my email to protonmail. I have a little over 500 accounts tied to my Gmail over the last two decades. Moving them is a pain but still possible. The problem arises when it comes to existing accounts with byzantine financial institutions. Trying to change email addresses that are linked to you as the username is nigh impossible in many cases. Quite a few institutions won't let you use an email that comes from protonmail or a custom domain. So, many times I'm forced back into using a Gmail address to prevent a whole host off other issues

anonymousiam 4y ago
Your point about the inability to change your email address with certain institutions resonates with me. Some companies have no consideration for the possibility that one of their customers might need to change their primary email address. Last year I was notified by Audi that my email address had been compromised in a data breach. As the spam volume to that mailbox increased, I decided to change it. I discovered that I cannot change the email address associated with my Audi account. When I contacted their Technical Support group, they advised me to delete the whole account (which failed), and create a new one.
_8j50 4y ago
But it is free excrement
nzealand 4y ago
Financial institutions are the most frustrating when it comes to email notifications to custom domains. Often times the confirmation email comes through fine, then the email notifications fail to be sent. Luckily with all financial institutions it's easy (probably too easy) to call them up and change your email address.
Beltalowda 4y ago
> Quite a few institutions won't let you use an email that comes from protonmail or a custom domain. So, many times I'm forced back into using a Gmail address to prevent a whole host off other issues As in, they check "if domain != 'gmail.com' { fuckyou(); }"? Or as in "they MTAs are not very good and just don't deliver email"?

joe__f 4y ago

I've been thinking to move away from Gmail for a while now, what alternatives do you suggest?

blacklight 4y ago
I've been using Protonmail with 3 custom domains for a few years, but I'm quite upset by the state of their bridge. They struggled a lot with IMAP compatibility, they only test it on Thunderbird, Outlook and Apple Mail before releasing it, and you can't connect to the bridge from another machine (well, you can technically set up an SSH tunnel or use socat to forward the localhost ports, but that's a hack that is not officially supported nor advised). I'm now considering switching to Fastmail or Tutanota. Or even run my own mail server. I used to do that until a couple of years ago, but I eventually got frustrated by all the dumb rules that Google and Microsoft (but mostly Microsoft) set in place to discourage people from running their own servers. However, given the amount of time that I've already spent to debug the Proton bridge and open PRs to fix their sh*t, I must acknowledge that running my own Postfix server and spending a couple of hours to set up the right DNS records would have probably saved me a lot of time (and money).
incrudible 4y ago
Stop answering e-mails. No, seriously.
kornhole 4y ago
First of all, buy your own domain from Gandi.net, hover, namecheap, or wherever you prefer. Then get an email account at a private provider who let's you use your own domain: fastmail, gandi, proton, tutanota.. As long as you keep paying for your domain registration, you are not beholden to a mail provider.
sph 4y ago
Fastmail with your custom domain. I am a user, I am not paid to advertise them. I do not miss Google at all. If you do not like Fastmail, still get your own domain for emails.
- 4y ago

ScottyAdams0 4y ago

[flagged]

MPSimmons 4y ago
In my opinion, the issue with Google's products is not and never really has been that they're "low quality", it's that, when you DO have problems with them, there is absolutely no recourse or support option. The reason that the parent mentioned that there have been 500 support threads for someone being locked out of their Gmail (or site de-listed, or literally any other change that Google has the ability to make) is that there is no accountability or infrastructure to get support.
- ScottyAdams0 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - kaibee 4y ago
    > Ok you’re just gonna assert something demonstrably false. Ok, I just feel a need to respond and say, no. They do customer service at Google better than any company I’ve ever seen. Did you accidentally cross over from some parallel universe or something? In your world, did Trump win in 2016 and lose in 2020? Just checking.
harrisonpage 4y ago
> It’s also laughably out of touch to say Google products are low quality. Have you used their Nest products? Absolute garbage.

sph 4y ago

Let me repeat it for those in the back: If you're still using Google products as your primary drivers, then it's entirely your fault. Your email is your most prized possession. It is more important than your credit card number. At least you can call your bank if someone steals it. Also, _ALWAYS_ use your own custom domain for emails. Do not host it @someone-else.com Stop using a free service from a terrible company that can lock you out at any time and, for Heaven's sake, stop recommending it to non-technical people!

Freak_NL 4y ago
> […] stop recommending it to non-technical people! Excepting loved ones, there is not much of a choice is there? If you help set them up in a way that covers all the basics (personal domain, mail hosted at one of the current batch of paid, reliable parties like fastmail.com), then whenever something goes wrong, or whenever the friction to do something (anything!) is too high, it's not only your fault, but they'll lose trust in anything that doesn't look like a megacorp. The other alternative is to just point them to Apple/Microsoft/Google where everything just works¹, and when things go tits-up (which, statistically speaking, only happens to a small percentage of people) they'll just blame that faceless megacorp, knowing full well that real choice is limited to those with technical know-how (or direct access to them). I dislike the status quo, but aside from making sure I and my family aren't stuck like this, I don't see much leeway to change it. 1: It doesn't. But it will feel like it does, which is all that matters, and when it doesn't work, they'll just blame themselves.
650REDHAIR 4y ago
Do you host your own email?
- forgotpwd16 4y ago
  You can have an email with custom domain without having to host it. Though, even for that, not sure how easy will be for a non-technical person to set up. Maybe there're services making it simple.

pseudo0 4y ago

Their requirements have gotten pretty insane. I have a couple of old Gmail accounts I used for low-priority stuff (signing up for forums, mailing lists where I might get spammed) and they are both now locked out for "security reasons". I have strong passwords, correctly provided the previous password, have the recovery email, but I jump through all the hoops just for them to tell me to F off. And these are 10+ year old accounts with no issues! Thank goodness I don't use Gmail for my primary email address, I moved that ages ago.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

zxcvbn4038 4y ago

That is pretty harsh. The only way to resolve problems with Google like this is to know someone on the inside that can help, or to generate enough outrage on social media that some service team someplace takes notice and reaches out to help the guy. What the poster can do in the future is enable 2FA on his Google accounts as that seems to streamline password recovery. At minimum add a phone and backup codes. Even better add a couple yubikeys (and maybe drop the phone after adding yubikeys because phones are super easy to compromise) Same goes for GitHub.

nzealand 4y ago
The poster can also be patient. I've been locked out of infrequently used google accounts before. Eventually the account will be unlocked. If you ignore it for a few days (also pretty harsh.)
- blacklight 4y ago
  Some people who get locked out of their Google accounts may be unable to use their phones, access their photos, receive and send emails, or do their day-to-day work on shared documents. How can you say "just be patient and wait a couple of days"?

prlambert 4y ago

"Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Edit out swipes." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sergiomattei 4y ago

What do you suggest? Asking honestly as a long time google user.