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FSD = fraudulent sales and disappointment I can’t believe Tesla has gotten away with selling a feature that doesn’t exist, and will never be delivered, on so m
by dpiers 4y ago
FSD = fraudulent sales and disappointment
I can’t believe Tesla has gotten away with selling a feature that doesn’t exist, and will never be delivered, on so many cars for so long. Tesla began selling “full self-driving” in October, 2016 and a month later marketed it with (now known to be heavily controlled) video of a car driving itself for two minutes. Owners of those initial cars have probably paid them off by now and still don’t have a feature they were sold.
- ghaff 4y agoIn fairness I know people with "FSD" who went into it well aware that it's not really FSD and they still like it. That said, the marketing is clearly fraudulent.
- berkle4455 4y agoA lot of people knowingly buy into ponzi schemes too.
- ghaff 4y agoYou can not buy into all of a manufacturer's marketing puffery and still like a product on balance.
- Retric 4y agoPuffery has specific meaning here and making objective statements doesn’t qualify. You can’t call a 3’ log 5’ and say it’s just puffery.
- rafael09ed 4y agoYou can call a 1.5" by 3.5" plank a 2x4
- Retric 4y agoI don’t think Tesla can round up from 0 and say you can make money with a self driving Taxi service.
- dymk 4y agoTesla calls it FSD, not "Nominal FSD". To nitpick your metaphor further: A 2x4 plank starts off as 2" by 4", and it is shaved down to 1.5 x 3.5 side to straighten it out. A Tesla "FSD" car has never been in its life fully self driving.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ra7 4y agoFSD has enabled a ton of sales for Tesla and is arguably one of the biggest factors they were valued over a trillion dollars at one point.
- clouddrover 4y agoThe lies worked in the short term, but Tesla's on the hook now for a lot of free hardware upgrades: https://electrek.co/2022/12/12/tesla-ordered-upgrade-self-driving-computer-for-free-false-advertising/ https://electrek.co/2022/12/12/tesla-ordered-upgrade-self-dr... That won't be helping the stock price going forward.
- quonn 4y agoThose updates will be cheaper than the 15k price. And for those who already opted in, it‘s a small expense to pay for the upgrade. Tesla can easily afford it.
- clouddrover 4y agoIt would have been even cheaper to simply not lie about the capability in the first place.
- SapporoChris 4y agoThis has always confused me. I knew FSD wasn't feasible, I knew Tesla was selling a lie. I also knew it was an incredible investment opportunity. I passed on it because I envisioned a bunch of lawsuits destroying the company. Obviously, I was clearly wrong. While the stock is way down from peak it's clearly been an amazing investment for those that invested early. 2020/1/10 $31.88, 2021/11/30 $381.59 (peak I think) and around 122.81 at close Friday. Normally, I can look back at an investment in mistake and the issues are obvious in hindsight. With Tesla, I still have no idea why the company still hasn't succumb to lawsuits.
- misiti3780 4y agoIm one of those people, I have it and love testing it out, but I know it's not FSD, I really do get the big deal about the name. Anyone who buys it thinking it's really FSD is an idiot. The difference between me and apparently everyone else in this forum is I do think TSLA will build a video model that is L4/L5 in the next few years. I live in a rural america and majority of my drives do not require interventions.
- remote_phone 4y agoMusk said that by 2020 there would be a million robotaxis on the road. To say that anyone who bought it thinking that FSD wasn’t real is a very, very stupid statement.
- ghaff 4y agoBefore I spend $10K+ on something, I do more research than listening to the claims of some CEO who has a history of being "optimistic" about timelines at a minimum.
- bagels 4y agoWhy are they idiots? Because they believed the marketing messages that Tesla put out?
- misiti3780 4y agopretty much yes. If you live in 2022 and believe any marketing, you're not firing on all cylinders.
- jupp0r 4y agoI think claiming it "will never be delivered" is probably wrong as well.
- anonymoushn 4y agoThe feature is impossible to implement with the sensor suite that comes with the car.
- fallingknife 4y agoThe only currently known self driving system uses that same sensor suite (neural nets and cameras).
- simonh 4y agoTeslas don’t have LiDAR, which is used in all the best self driving systems.
- 725686 4y agoHe was talking about humans.
- rich_sasha 4y agoHumans don't have lidar either.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y agoAnd birds don't have jet engine, yet nobody is trying to replicate flight by wing flapping as a bird.
- gcanyon 4y agoMy friend, I have news for you :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBq9NcITh6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBq9NcITh6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtn4PpZEB8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtn4PpZEB8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R19QQiM5Mw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R19QQiM5Mw
- rvz 4y agoMore like 'Fools Self Driving'. Hardly surprising that action has been taken over FSD, especially the robo-taxi claims and the deceptive advertising over this alleged safety-critical system proven to be unsafe and putting other drivers on the roads at risk. As I have previously said before. [0] So not a surprise here that many are realising that FSD is a complete scam and is being investigated by regulators and lawmakers for its false claims and misleading advertising. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28000436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28000436
- WA 4y agoIt’s still up in all its fraudulent glory: https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-tesla-cars https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-...
- 93po 4y agoThe title of this is "Full Self Driving Hardware on All Teslas". The hardware is in fact on all Teslas. What part of that is fraud? Nothing about this video was misleading and the car did in fact drive itself through that route.
- xattt 4y agoThe name FSD intimates an SAE Level 5 experience. It’s not partial self-driving or any other sort, but full. If there was any name to suggest it, this would be it. Imagine going to an emergency department with chest pains/trouble breathing/thunderclap headache, and the triage nurse saying “oooooh yeaaaaah, I know emergency is in our name but we don’t really deal with that, you’re on your own”. Things that are critical to life-or-limb should be appropriately named without the use of weasel words or asterisks.
- jdminhbg 4y agoYou know there are lots of ERs that can’t handle lots of emergencies, right? There’s even a whole “Level” system to describe which emergencies they are and are not equipped to handle.
- xattt 4y agoEven when a rural ER receives a CTAS 1-2 patient, there is a chain of survival that’s followed to ensure continuity of care and transfer to an appropriate facility and accountability. There is no safe failure mode in FSD that doesn’t rely on human intervention that’s intimated in the name.
- epistasis 4y agoCalling it hardware for "Full Self Driving" is fraudulent if FSD doesn't exist, is nowhere close to existing, and the video has been deliberately edited to defraud viewers into thinking the hardware is capable of something that doesn't actually exist. What sort of semantic game are you playing here and why? I don't understand how you can not see this as anything but competent fraudulent, particularly with the editing that happened to make this video. I'm truly bewildered, this is not rhetorical or exaggerated at all!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Dalewyn 4y agoThe only FSD I know is the Frame Shift Drive, sometimes known as the Friendship Drive.
- acover 4y agoHow is it different than kickstarter? Genuine question. Is it because Tesla is a large company and should have self funded it?
- lolinder 4y agoAny Kickstarter is obliged to be very explicit about the risks. They're required to have a section in the pitch dedicated to what might go wrong, and Kickstarter itself has text everywhere reminding you that rewards are not guaranteed. Tesla, on the other hand, never acknowledges the very real possibility that your extremely expensive vehicle never sees full self driving.
- fiddlerwoaroof 4y agoThe sale page is pretty explicit about what you’re buying and has this note: > The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates. Also, at this point, my experience with the FSD package in my 2020 Model 3 is that it is not misleading to call it a “FSD beta”: in specific predictable situations it has problems with maneuvers but, over the last month or so, it’s continuously gotten better at making full trips without disengaging.
- robryk 4y agoThis note makes it very obvious that customer's evaluation of the expected timeline might impact their purchase decision. In my non-expert opinion Tesla puts itself on notice that any false statements that might impact that evaluation would be fraudulent. If my opinion matches the legal consensus, then the doctored video would be such a false statement.
- matthewdgreen 4y agoSomehow we got used to companies selling products named "Definitely Does Thing [X]!" and then adding fine print that says "this product absolutely does not do thing [X]." I think it would be much better if we stopped accepting that practice.
- 93po 4y agoFSD beta is literally deployed to all Teslas that have purchased it.
- afrcnc 4y agoThey made people pay for it?