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FWIW, as far as "will the car drive itself?", FSD is already here. Call a friend and get a ride. The beta lets people in relatively rapidly now, and there are

by ajross 4y ago

FWIW, as far as "will the car drive itself?", FSD is already here. Call a friend and get a ride. The beta lets people in relatively rapidly now, and there are hundreds of thousands of enabled cars on the roads. It's pretty amazing. Now, it's absolutely true that it's not at a 100% supervision-free level. It's still timid, it has trouble with lane selection in some areas and misses turns, etc... But for months and months intervention-free drives in my area have been the rule and not the exception. My car, for sure, drives me around. It's pretty amazing. But that's not regulatory approval, and coverage of the issue tends to conflate the two. So you have people like you who read this stuff, but don't get rides from friends, who think somehow it's a disaster and a failure. But it's an actual product people are buying and using. Add that to all the folks who have a vested interest[1] in Tesla failing, and... the discourse around this subject is pretty toxic. All I can say is, again, call a friend and get a ride. There's a lot of hate to push through, but the cars are amazing. [1] Because, to be fair, the CEO is an asshole burning Twitter to the ground as we write.

jackmott 4y ago
[dead]
Retric 4y ago
Other companies have cars one public streets without drivers. Calling what current Tesla’s do Full Sell Driving is so misleading it’s probably just fraud.
- jaxn 4y ago
  Is there any consumer car that is anywhere close? My understanding is that no other car has things like automatic lan change and route following. Let alone stopping at stop signs / red lights etc.
  - spookie 4y ago
    That is not full self driving
  - ajross 4y ago
    Yeah, nothing else does that stuff. Which is I think the big disconnect in this discourse. People who want to take the anti- side can lean on "It's not complete!" as an argument, because it isn't. But in terms of capability, it's way ahead of the competition[1] And some of us want this feature and want to pay for it! And it works! So... I'm actually fine with renaming it. People shouting "fraud" on the internet want somehow for a different name to magically make the product bad. But the product is great. [1] Yes, including Waymo and Cruise, who work only on carefully calibrated geofenced areas. My Tesla will take the highway when it needs to and honor a five-way stop sign. Waymo won't even make an unprotected left turn.
    - Retric 4y ago
      Other driver assist/hands free driving systems do lane changing and still clarify they aren’t self driving. The most important metric for self driving is the distance a car can travel before it needs assistance from an occupant. That’s what self driving is. Tesla is very far behind the leaders here. Also, Tesla might not in theory be geofenced, but in practice it will refuse to drive on many roads making it effectively geofenced.
      - dotnet00 4y ago
        >The most important metric for self driving is the distance a car can travel before it needs assistance from an occupant. That’s what self driving is. That's reductionist to the point of meaninglessness. A car limited to a specific track could keep going autonomously until it breaks down, thus having an infinite metric on the distance a car can travel before it needs assistance from an occupant, yet practically it could easily be useless as a self-driving vehicle. Being able to handle self-driving without being restricted to carefully chosen "good spots" and instead being able to generalize is at least on par in importance with distance the vehicle can travel. Also, the vehicle determining that it can't handle a certain road well enough yet is a desirable feature and isn't really comparable to a bunch of people deciding if a certain road is safe for their vehicle before allowing it to self-drive there, as the latter simply isn't practical at scale.
  - woofyman 4y ago
    Ford blue cruise does automated lane change. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41117967/ford-bluecruise-new-features/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41117967/ford-bluecruise-...
- KyleJune 4y ago
  As an owner in the FSD beta, I think the most misleading thing is Elon's BS time lines. When I bought in August 2019, they were basically telling everyone they have it ready to be a taxi next year with a flip of a switch. Implying they already have it figured out when they didn't. I bought my car with FSD and didn't get into the Beta until a year after they were suppose to be ready for use as a taxi. At this point for me, it's not really good enough to use on city/rural streets without frequent interventions. I pretty much only use self driving on the highway, which is currently using a separate stack than FSD Beta. They are suppose to start using the same stack for highways soon.
twoodfin 4y ago
If you don’t have a friend, I thought this MKBHD video from a few days ago was a fair appraisal of the current state of FSD: https://youtu.be/9nF0K2nJ7N8 https://youtu.be/9nF0K2nJ7N8
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  I think he has another good video on TSLA and tech hype in general.

by ajross 4y ago

jackmott 4y ago

[dead]

Retric 4y ago

Other companies have cars one public streets without drivers. Calling what current Tesla’s do Full Sell Driving is so misleading it’s probably just fraud.

jaxn 4y ago
Is there any consumer car that is anywhere close? My understanding is that no other car has things like automatic lan change and route following. Let alone stopping at stop signs / red lights etc.
- spookie 4y ago
  That is not full self driving
- ajross 4y ago
  Yeah, nothing else does that stuff. Which is I think the big disconnect in this discourse. People who want to take the anti- side can lean on "It's not complete!" as an argument, because it isn't. But in terms of capability, it's way ahead of the competition[1] And some of us want this feature and want to pay for it! And it works! So... I'm actually fine with renaming it. People shouting "fraud" on the internet want somehow for a different name to magically make the product bad. But the product is great. [1] Yes, including Waymo and Cruise, who work only on carefully calibrated geofenced areas. My Tesla will take the highway when it needs to and honor a five-way stop sign. Waymo won't even make an unprotected left turn.
  - Retric 4y ago
    Other driver assist/hands free driving systems do lane changing and still clarify they aren’t self driving. The most important metric for self driving is the distance a car can travel before it needs assistance from an occupant. That’s what self driving is. Tesla is very far behind the leaders here. Also, Tesla might not in theory be geofenced, but in practice it will refuse to drive on many roads making it effectively geofenced.
    - dotnet00 4y ago
      >The most important metric for self driving is the distance a car can travel before it needs assistance from an occupant. That’s what self driving is. That's reductionist to the point of meaninglessness. A car limited to a specific track could keep going autonomously until it breaks down, thus having an infinite metric on the distance a car can travel before it needs assistance from an occupant, yet practically it could easily be useless as a self-driving vehicle. Being able to handle self-driving without being restricted to carefully chosen "good spots" and instead being able to generalize is at least on par in importance with distance the vehicle can travel. Also, the vehicle determining that it can't handle a certain road well enough yet is a desirable feature and isn't really comparable to a bunch of people deciding if a certain road is safe for their vehicle before allowing it to self-drive there, as the latter simply isn't practical at scale.
- woofyman 4y ago
  Ford blue cruise does automated lane change. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41117967/ford-bluecruise-new-features/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41117967/ford-bluecruise-...
KyleJune 4y ago
As an owner in the FSD beta, I think the most misleading thing is Elon's BS time lines. When I bought in August 2019, they were basically telling everyone they have it ready to be a taxi next year with a flip of a switch. Implying they already have it figured out when they didn't. I bought my car with FSD and didn't get into the Beta until a year after they were suppose to be ready for use as a taxi. At this point for me, it's not really good enough to use on city/rural streets without frequent interventions. I pretty much only use self driving on the highway, which is currently using a separate stack than FSD Beta. They are suppose to start using the same stack for highways soon.

twoodfin 4y ago

If you don’t have a friend, I thought this MKBHD video from a few days ago was a fair appraisal of the current state of FSD: https://youtu.be/9nF0K2nJ7N8 https://youtu.be/9nF0K2nJ7N8

cactusplant7374 4y ago
I think he has another good video on TSLA and tech hype in general.