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I have worked for several years on remote teams and have a couple years work experience on a completely local team. In terms of team cohesion I'd say that it h

by phuff 15y ago

I have worked for several years on remote teams and have a couple years work experience on a completely local team. In terms of team cohesion I'd say that it has very little to do with colocation, all other things being equal. Maybe you just haven't worked with a cohesive fully remote team ever?

akkartik 15y ago
I certainly haven't. Isn't it incredibly rare?
nirvdrum 15y ago
I wouldn't want to rule that possibility out. But I've worked with people remotely for years and known very little about them. Because our communication is almost solely work-related. Whereas the people I work with locally I know very well. We go out for lunch or for drinks. We chat about random crap in the office. It's not really work, but from it I learn how to work with those people much better.
- waterlesscloud 15y ago
  I'm not doubting you, but can you provide actual examples of how this has resulted in a better work product? I don't doubt that working together physically has benefits for feeling closer to your coworkers. But I do wonder if that actually has solid bottom line results. And do those results outweigh the benefits of have more talented and productive teammates who are not in the office? When I'm stepping back to take an objective look at it, "team cohesion" is one of those things that could easily have more value ascribed to it than it actually provides.
  - nirvdrum 15y ago
    Software quality is a notoriously difficult thing to measure. Most studies are conducted over large codebases over several years (IBM & Microsoft have spent a lot of time on this). So, I can't actually prove it. I have spent a lot of time dealing with it and I know what I'm most comfortable with. And there are always exceptions. I've worked with some really talented remote people -- oddly, they usually end up relocating eventually anyway because they want to. I've also worked with some remote people that really think they're much better than they actually are. Professionally, the least satisfying jobs for me are the ones where people clock in and clock out. They may be very efficient, but I usually don't learn much from them and there's zero contact after we invariably go onto our next thing. That's a long-winded way of saying you might be right and objectively team cohesion is overrated -- I really don't know. Subjectively, I found I'm happier that way and I do my best work when satisfied. I do believe it's resulted in higher quality products usually, too. It's often the stuff you don't think about. Like overhearing a couple colleagues discussing something and being able to interject and save them a couple days of frustration. That stuff usually doesn't land in IRC, Basecamp, Skype, or whatever. But if you've managed to make it work, awesome. It's not my intention to combat the practice if it's working. I just don't like the attitude that anyone opposed to it is some sort of Luddite that sucks at business.
- tdfx 15y ago
  I agree. I've worked for years, sometimes with people that I've never met in person, and had great working relationships while learning very little about their lives. I enjoy having separate work and social lives.
- kls 15y ago
  It's funny because this is the antithesis of my experience. A few of my best friends I met through remote teams. One of them I knew for years, and we finally met in person, in Raleigh at the IBM campus. IT was funny because it was a little awkward at first and then we fell into old conversations just like we did on Skype. For every project we have a group chat on Skype and we encourage tech talk and friendly banter. Some of my best friends in the world I have never met in person and I know a good bit of personal detail about them. I have found the experience to be exactly the same as being in a collocated area.

by phuff 15y ago

akkartik 15y ago

I certainly haven't. Isn't it incredibly rare?

nirvdrum 15y ago

I wouldn't want to rule that possibility out. But I've worked with people remotely for years and known very little about them. Because our communication is almost solely work-related. Whereas the people I work with locally I know very well. We go out for lunch or for drinks. We chat about random crap in the office. It's not really work, but from it I learn how to work with those people much better.

waterlesscloud 15y ago
I'm not doubting you, but can you provide actual examples of how this has resulted in a better work product? I don't doubt that working together physically has benefits for feeling closer to your coworkers. But I do wonder if that actually has solid bottom line results. And do those results outweigh the benefits of have more talented and productive teammates who are not in the office? When I'm stepping back to take an objective look at it, "team cohesion" is one of those things that could easily have more value ascribed to it than it actually provides.
- nirvdrum 15y ago
  Software quality is a notoriously difficult thing to measure. Most studies are conducted over large codebases over several years (IBM & Microsoft have spent a lot of time on this). So, I can't actually prove it. I have spent a lot of time dealing with it and I know what I'm most comfortable with. And there are always exceptions. I've worked with some really talented remote people -- oddly, they usually end up relocating eventually anyway because they want to. I've also worked with some remote people that really think they're much better than they actually are. Professionally, the least satisfying jobs for me are the ones where people clock in and clock out. They may be very efficient, but I usually don't learn much from them and there's zero contact after we invariably go onto our next thing. That's a long-winded way of saying you might be right and objectively team cohesion is overrated -- I really don't know. Subjectively, I found I'm happier that way and I do my best work when satisfied. I do believe it's resulted in higher quality products usually, too. It's often the stuff you don't think about. Like overhearing a couple colleagues discussing something and being able to interject and save them a couple days of frustration. That stuff usually doesn't land in IRC, Basecamp, Skype, or whatever. But if you've managed to make it work, awesome. It's not my intention to combat the practice if it's working. I just don't like the attitude that anyone opposed to it is some sort of Luddite that sucks at business.
tdfx 15y ago
I agree. I've worked for years, sometimes with people that I've never met in person, and had great working relationships while learning very little about their lives. I enjoy having separate work and social lives.
kls 15y ago
It's funny because this is the antithesis of my experience. A few of my best friends I met through remote teams. One of them I knew for years, and we finally met in person, in Raleigh at the IBM campus. IT was funny because it was a little awkward at first and then we fell into old conversations just like we did on Skype. For every project we have a group chat on Skype and we encourage tech talk and friendly banter. Some of my best friends in the world I have never met in person and I know a good bit of personal detail about them. I have found the experience to be exactly the same as being in a collocated area.