5 ms·

Hire a professional to do it for you. There's coffee as a hobby, and coffee as a professional business. 8000 trees is the latter.

tsingy 4y ago
Planning to do that if I find someone competent enough. But that is hard when living a top 10 from the bottom poor country. Also, I still need to learn enough so I can still oversee how things go.
- gigatexal 4y ago
  Well find someone you trust and have them manage it. Give them some equity in the enterprise so your incentives are aligned then ask them to teach you the business of farming coffee. Wanting to learn the business so you can micro-manage your manager sounds like a recipe for disaster. That or sell it to a big coffee producer and go about your life doing things you’re good at.
- ckastner 4y ago
  I understand your dilemma, but I don't see a way around hiring a professional. Think of one of the simpler tasks. Say you need to fertilize the trees. When is the right time? What is the right amount? How many people do you need to fertilize 8000 trees in time? How do you finance that, including purchasing the fertilizer? Are you even allowed to purchase that much fertilizer (it's been often abused to make car bombs)? No idea whether fertilizing is even a thing with coffee, but other tasks won't be much simpler. If you can't hire one, is taking on a temporary partner (for a cut off the profit) an option?
  - tsingy 4y ago
    As you said it's a huge dilemma. I will keep it as green as possible, even if it cuts production by a big percentage. I'd rather have it fail that be not environmentally friendly. My life does not depend on it, I can afford to fail and that is why I want to try. I can hire people, labors are cheap where I live so that won't be a problem. A partner is fine if competent enough I guess. For now the goal is to break even, If I can achieve that it will be win already.
    - workbytaylor 4y ago
      World coffee research may be a good place for you to learn about coffee farming in the 21st century. Another commenter mentioned you won't be able to farm the old ways, and WCR could support you going forward. At the very least they could point you in the right direction to get started, and maybe even know someone you could hire. https://worldcoffeeresearch.org/ https://worldcoffeeresearch.org/
      - tsingy 4y ago
        I will contact them, thanks for the link.
    - Jiro 4y ago
      >I will keep it as green as possible, even if it cuts production by a big percentage. I'd rather have it fail that be not environmentally friendly. My life does not depend on it, I can afford to fail and that is why I want to try. I'm skeptical that you're in a position where you can afford to fail, short of edge cases like "I just let the land lie fallow and pump no money whatsoever into it" or "I am a multi-millionaire already without the plantation".
      - tsingy 4y ago
        My life does not depend on it, so if it fails, I will lose money for sure but that's fine, won't be the first nor the last time. Labor is cheap and I want to try.
  - Fiahil 4y ago
    > Say you need to fertilize the trees. When is the right time? What is the right amount? How many people do you need to fertilize 8000 trees in time? You experiment. It takes a lot of time, yes, but it’s not that difficult. I find your answer and many other here overly pessimistic and unkind. Not every thing is about hustling a business to perfection and on the first try.
    - ckastner 4y ago
      > You experiment. It takes a lot of time, yes, but it’s not that difficult. A failed experiment might cost you 8000 trees. It takes a massive amount of time, and money, to re-launch an experiment of this scale. And every re-launch, you restart the 3-4 year clock until trees are mature enough to harvest. When you quoted me, you left out the part about how to finance all of this. > Not every thing is about hustling a business to perfection and on the first try. With an 8000 tree farm, that point is you very very likely have only one try.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wara23arish 4y ago
  I come from one of those countries as well, if you work as a software dev or have a good amount of income, this is great. I would assume labor is cheap where you’re from, the problem might be with selling your product locally.
  - tsingy 4y ago
    I'm on a sabbatical year, learning how to code. I used to live and work in France so yeah, I have money to invest if needed because labor is cheap. Selling locally won't bring in much profit. That's why I want to specialize in specialty coffee, better margin and easier to export. I'm looking at producing rice also, this time for local consumption.
quickthrower2 4y ago
I agree. Running a small cafe would be daunting to me; a roastery even more so; a freaking coffee farm is something else!
- tsingy 4y ago
  Well, in my wildest dream I would do all of this, control the production from start to finish. The coffee shop culture is not really a thing yet in my country, I always wanted to start one. I miss it from when I lived in France where you had coffee shop everywhere.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    What county?
    - tsingy 4y ago
      Madagascar.

tsingy 4y ago

Planning to do that if I find someone competent enough. But that is hard when living a top 10 from the bottom poor country. Also, I still need to learn enough so I can still oversee how things go.

gigatexal 4y ago
Well find someone you trust and have them manage it. Give them some equity in the enterprise so your incentives are aligned then ask them to teach you the business of farming coffee. Wanting to learn the business so you can micro-manage your manager sounds like a recipe for disaster. That or sell it to a big coffee producer and go about your life doing things you’re good at.
ckastner 4y ago
I understand your dilemma, but I don't see a way around hiring a professional. Think of one of the simpler tasks. Say you need to fertilize the trees. When is the right time? What is the right amount? How many people do you need to fertilize 8000 trees in time? How do you finance that, including purchasing the fertilizer? Are you even allowed to purchase that much fertilizer (it's been often abused to make car bombs)? No idea whether fertilizing is even a thing with coffee, but other tasks won't be much simpler. If you can't hire one, is taking on a temporary partner (for a cut off the profit) an option?
- tsingy 4y ago
  As you said it's a huge dilemma. I will keep it as green as possible, even if it cuts production by a big percentage. I'd rather have it fail that be not environmentally friendly. My life does not depend on it, I can afford to fail and that is why I want to try. I can hire people, labors are cheap where I live so that won't be a problem. A partner is fine if competent enough I guess. For now the goal is to break even, If I can achieve that it will be win already.
  - workbytaylor 4y ago
    World coffee research may be a good place for you to learn about coffee farming in the 21st century. Another commenter mentioned you won't be able to farm the old ways, and WCR could support you going forward. At the very least they could point you in the right direction to get started, and maybe even know someone you could hire. https://worldcoffeeresearch.org/ https://worldcoffeeresearch.org/
    - tsingy 4y ago
      I will contact them, thanks for the link.
  - Jiro 4y ago
    >I will keep it as green as possible, even if it cuts production by a big percentage. I'd rather have it fail that be not environmentally friendly. My life does not depend on it, I can afford to fail and that is why I want to try. I'm skeptical that you're in a position where you can afford to fail, short of edge cases like "I just let the land lie fallow and pump no money whatsoever into it" or "I am a multi-millionaire already without the plantation".
    - tsingy 4y ago
      My life does not depend on it, so if it fails, I will lose money for sure but that's fine, won't be the first nor the last time. Labor is cheap and I want to try.
- Fiahil 4y ago
  > Say you need to fertilize the trees. When is the right time? What is the right amount? How many people do you need to fertilize 8000 trees in time? You experiment. It takes a lot of time, yes, but it’s not that difficult. I find your answer and many other here overly pessimistic and unkind. Not every thing is about hustling a business to perfection and on the first try.
  - ckastner 4y ago
    > You experiment. It takes a lot of time, yes, but it’s not that difficult. A failed experiment might cost you 8000 trees. It takes a massive amount of time, and money, to re-launch an experiment of this scale. And every re-launch, you restart the 3-4 year clock until trees are mature enough to harvest. When you quoted me, you left out the part about how to finance all of this. > Not every thing is about hustling a business to perfection and on the first try. With an 8000 tree farm, that point is you very very likely have only one try.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wara23arish 4y ago
I come from one of those countries as well, if you work as a software dev or have a good amount of income, this is great. I would assume labor is cheap where you’re from, the problem might be with selling your product locally.
- tsingy 4y ago
  I'm on a sabbatical year, learning how to code. I used to live and work in France so yeah, I have money to invest if needed because labor is cheap. Selling locally won't bring in much profit. That's why I want to specialize in specialty coffee, better margin and easier to export. I'm looking at producing rice also, this time for local consumption.

quickthrower2 4y ago

I agree. Running a small cafe would be daunting to me; a roastery even more so; a freaking coffee farm is something else!

tsingy 4y ago
Well, in my wildest dream I would do all of this, control the production from start to finish. The coffee shop culture is not really a thing yet in my country, I always wanted to start one. I miss it from when I lived in France where you had coffee shop everywhere.
- roflyear 4y ago
  What county?
  - tsingy 4y ago
    Madagascar.