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>If they love to do it (and that’s usually what distinguishes the average from the best programmers) Anyone else feel that people who love programming aren't n

>If they love to do it (and that’s usually what distinguishes the average from the best programmers) Anyone else feel that people who love programming aren't necessarily great at it? A lot of devs who "love" programming can be highly opinionated, get distracted by minor issues, have difficulty or reluctance to summarize things to non technical people , have unwieldy PR's containing changes for things way outside of the scope of the task they were given, and don't believe that documentation is something they personally have to do.

cybrox 4y ago
I don't think their point was that "[all] people who love programming are great at it". So far, from the people I have met, I would agree that having a love for the craft distinguishes very good programmers from exceptionally good ones. There's only so much you can do against someone who is talented and enjoys spending even more time learning something.
- rgblambda 4y ago
  Yeah, my issue was with the word "usually". "Can be" I would have accepted. I think what you've said is a lot closer to the mark. A love of programming can distinguish the very good from the exceptional. Although I'd be envious of whoever has the dilemma of having to select a manager from only very good or exceptional candidates. That's the minority of us. Most of us are average or above average, and applying that rule tends to pick someone closer to my example.
Corazoor 4y ago
I want to point out that none of your points are an actual indicator of how good someone is at programming. They are important in the context of a job, especially in a team, but not for actual coding. So its really two different things we are talking about here.
- rgblambda 4y ago
  Good point. The points I made apply more to Software Engineering. I should have clarified "good programmer to work with". But as you say, this is in the context of a job. There are no managers in amateur/hobby programming.
magicalhippo 4y ago
The key is that writing the best code might not be what a project requires. Frankly it might be quite down the list. Delivering a great product is so much more than writing great code. As mentioned in another comment here[1], some programmers don't care about the users, or deadlines. That's fine if programming is your hobby. It's not fine if you're paid to deliver a product. As an example, if our program doesn't do the right thing on the 1st of January 2023 when regulations change, it is completely useless for all of our users. A programmer who doesn't care about that deadline and the potential effects for the users if it's missed is worthless for us, regardless of skill. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34116132 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34116132

cybrox 4y ago

I don't think their point was that "[all] people who love programming are great at it". So far, from the people I have met, I would agree that having a love for the craft distinguishes very good programmers from exceptionally good ones. There's only so much you can do against someone who is talented and enjoys spending even more time learning something.

rgblambda 4y ago
Yeah, my issue was with the word "usually". "Can be" I would have accepted. I think what you've said is a lot closer to the mark. A love of programming can distinguish the very good from the exceptional. Although I'd be envious of whoever has the dilemma of having to select a manager from only very good or exceptional candidates. That's the minority of us. Most of us are average or above average, and applying that rule tends to pick someone closer to my example.

Corazoor 4y ago

I want to point out that none of your points are an actual indicator of how good someone is at programming. They are important in the context of a job, especially in a team, but not for actual coding. So its really two different things we are talking about here.

rgblambda 4y ago
Good point. The points I made apply more to Software Engineering. I should have clarified "good programmer to work with". But as you say, this is in the context of a job. There are no managers in amateur/hobby programming.

magicalhippo 4y ago

The key is that writing the best code might not be what a project requires. Frankly it might be quite down the list. Delivering a great product is so much more than writing great code. As mentioned in another comment here[1], some programmers don't care about the users, or deadlines. That's fine if programming is your hobby. It's not fine if you're paid to deliver a product. As an example, if our program doesn't do the right thing on the 1st of January 2023 when regulations change, it is completely useless for all of our users. A programmer who doesn't care about that deadline and the potential effects for the users if it's missed is worthless for us, regardless of skill. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34116132 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34116132