5 ms·

I had a good laugh when I asked how to get rid of racism and it kept saying I needed to listen to people of colour and respect their opinions because they were

I had a good laugh when I asked how to get rid of racism and it kept saying I needed to listen to people of colour and respect their opinions because they were disproportionately affected due to systemic racism. Bare in mind I didn't mention which perspective this was supposed to be from. It just assumed the woke American perspective. The funny thing was, even when I specified how to eliminate racism against white people in a majority non white country (Africa, China, whatever) it still told me I had to respect people of colours opinions and ideas, inferring that it was the apex of solving this issue. Even when I specifically then mentions only whites and china...still it was obsessed with mentioning people of colour. Lol

zozbot234 4y ago
This is actually a nice demonstration of the effects of AI bias.
Zababa 4y ago
On the other hand, he seems okay rejecting the USA-centric concept of race and says that I'm correct when I suggest that fighting against discriminations as a whole would be more productive. In my experience with the woke American perspective, these views get a lot of pushback. The conversation kinds of made me think of someone having views that slightly differs from the norm but walks on eggshells either because the subject is very serious/important and/or because this is the only way to make people accept to have a conversation with you. Considering the online discourse, "racism is a very touchy subject, be careful when talking about it" sounds like a reasonable approach and something that I would expect someone reasonably smart to do. When I straight up asked about racism against white people, he told me that it existed, though he called it "prejudice" or "discrimination", he didn't use the word "racism" to describe it. That would suggest to me that what you were experiencing in your conversation may be an error rather than an ideological stance.
- yummypaint 4y ago
  When I straight up asked about racism against white people, he told me that it existed, though he called it "prejudice" or "discrimination", he didn't use the word "racism" to describe it. This is exactly correct. Racism is not a synonym for discrimination in general, it does specifically refer to the construction of "whiteness" in a largely western context. For example, the caste system in India is not racist. That is not to say it isn't abhorrent and discriminatory, but it pre-dates European colonialism by hundreds and perhaps thousands of years and existed outside that history for a very long time. When talking about British actions in India, however, racism does become a relevant term. It's important to maintain the precision of words so people don't just talk past each other. Some people are very weirdly militant about trying to redefine the word in a way that takes away from its descriptive capability.
  - kbelder 4y ago
    Nonsense. Adding a particular skin color into the definition of racism is racist in and of itself. And the attempt to turn 'whiteness' from a racist discriminator into some sort of cultural-historical-social grouping is purely a rationalization of this racism.
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    Absurd. Indians are very racist towards Africans. Where exactly does whiteness come in here? Simultaneously denying the agency of Indian people and ignoring the plight of the (small) African community in India.
    - yummypaint 4y ago
      That is still considered racism. Don't shoot the messenger. You can read up on how the concept of whiteness fits in on your own time.
      - cuteboy19 4y ago
        Even more absurd. There are no Indians who are white in any sense of the word.
        versteegen 4y ago
        I don't know about India, but races/racial terms like "white" are culturally defined. E.g. apparently Americans (sometimes?) refer to Pacific Islanders as "black"? That's absurd to me.
        yummypaint 4y ago
        It's all absurd. There is no biological basis for any of it. The concept of "whiteness" was invented to justify enslaving "non-white" people for profit. Full stop. Who is considered white has changed over time, mostly by slow expansion as groups seek to gain the priviledges associated with it. Again there is a broad wealth of literature about this written from all kinds of perspectives from the time when slavery was formally the law of the land until today. It's quite disappointing that some people feel so threatened by the historical record and thereby deny themselves the opportunity to learn.
rhaway84773 4y ago
Isn’t this just obviously a result of the fact that there isn’t much literature on racism in China on the internet or academic papers? This is not a reflection of openAI. This is a reflection of the failure of China to confront its own racism, and a reflection of the success of the U.S. to at least start the conversation on the racism within the US. It’s fascinating to me that China’s failure to even acknowledge its issues is somehow being presented as “Oh no, WOKE IS TAKING OVER AND WHITE PEOPLE ARE BEING OPPRESSED”.
- nullcaution 4y ago
  Common man, you started your comment well, but you end up just discrediting yourself with your meme text at the end. This site is for dialogue not flinging shit.
MonkeyClub 4y ago
> The funny thing was, even when I specified how to eliminate racism against white people in a majority non white country (Africa, China, whatever) it still told me I had to respect people of colours opinions and ideas, inferring that it was the apex of solving this issue. Here the color to be listened to would presumably be the white. Similar to how in Stasi-controlled East Germany the intellectual elite was right-wing, to counterbalance a left-wing state. I doubt, though, that the language model took that into account.
- db48x 4y ago
  Language models never take anything into account. All they do is pick the most probable next word or phrase given the words that came before it, as demonstrated by the sample inputs they have been trained on.
deleted 4y ago
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zozbot234 4y ago

This is actually a nice demonstration of the effects of AI bias.

Zababa 4y ago

On the other hand, he seems okay rejecting the USA-centric concept of race and says that I'm correct when I suggest that fighting against discriminations as a whole would be more productive. In my experience with the woke American perspective, these views get a lot of pushback. The conversation kinds of made me think of someone having views that slightly differs from the norm but walks on eggshells either because the subject is very serious/important and/or because this is the only way to make people accept to have a conversation with you. Considering the online discourse, "racism is a very touchy subject, be careful when talking about it" sounds like a reasonable approach and something that I would expect someone reasonably smart to do. When I straight up asked about racism against white people, he told me that it existed, though he called it "prejudice" or "discrimination", he didn't use the word "racism" to describe it. That would suggest to me that what you were experiencing in your conversation may be an error rather than an ideological stance.

yummypaint 4y ago
When I straight up asked about racism against white people, he told me that it existed, though he called it "prejudice" or "discrimination", he didn't use the word "racism" to describe it. This is exactly correct. Racism is not a synonym for discrimination in general, it does specifically refer to the construction of "whiteness" in a largely western context. For example, the caste system in India is not racist. That is not to say it isn't abhorrent and discriminatory, but it pre-dates European colonialism by hundreds and perhaps thousands of years and existed outside that history for a very long time. When talking about British actions in India, however, racism does become a relevant term. It's important to maintain the precision of words so people don't just talk past each other. Some people are very weirdly militant about trying to redefine the word in a way that takes away from its descriptive capability.
- kbelder 4y ago
  Nonsense. Adding a particular skin color into the definition of racism is racist in and of itself. And the attempt to turn 'whiteness' from a racist discriminator into some sort of cultural-historical-social grouping is purely a rationalization of this racism.
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  Absurd. Indians are very racist towards Africans. Where exactly does whiteness come in here? Simultaneously denying the agency of Indian people and ignoring the plight of the (small) African community in India.
  - yummypaint 4y ago
    That is still considered racism. Don't shoot the messenger. You can read up on how the concept of whiteness fits in on your own time.
    - cuteboy19 4y ago
      Even more absurd. There are no Indians who are white in any sense of the word.
      - versteegen 4y ago
        I don't know about India, but races/racial terms like "white" are culturally defined. E.g. apparently Americans (sometimes?) refer to Pacific Islanders as "black"? That's absurd to me.
        yummypaint 4y ago
        It's all absurd. There is no biological basis for any of it. The concept of "whiteness" was invented to justify enslaving "non-white" people for profit. Full stop. Who is considered white has changed over time, mostly by slow expansion as groups seek to gain the priviledges associated with it. Again there is a broad wealth of literature about this written from all kinds of perspectives from the time when slavery was formally the law of the land until today. It's quite disappointing that some people feel so threatened by the historical record and thereby deny themselves the opportunity to learn.

rhaway84773 4y ago

Isn’t this just obviously a result of the fact that there isn’t much literature on racism in China on the internet or academic papers? This is not a reflection of openAI. This is a reflection of the failure of China to confront its own racism, and a reflection of the success of the U.S. to at least start the conversation on the racism within the US. It’s fascinating to me that China’s failure to even acknowledge its issues is somehow being presented as “Oh no, WOKE IS TAKING OVER AND WHITE PEOPLE ARE BEING OPPRESSED”.

nullcaution 4y ago
Common man, you started your comment well, but you end up just discrediting yourself with your meme text at the end. This site is for dialogue not flinging shit.

MonkeyClub 4y ago

> The funny thing was, even when I specified how to eliminate racism against white people in a majority non white country (Africa, China, whatever) it still told me I had to respect people of colours opinions and ideas, inferring that it was the apex of solving this issue. Here the color to be listened to would presumably be the white. Similar to how in Stasi-controlled East Germany the intellectual elite was right-wing, to counterbalance a left-wing state. I doubt, though, that the language model took that into account.

db48x 4y ago
Language models never take anything into account. All they do is pick the most probable next word or phrase given the words that came before it, as demonstrated by the sample inputs they have been trained on.

deleted 4y ago

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