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This sounds incredibly nihilistic. I don’t think it’s helpful to eschew personal action with the idea that we have to do collective action for any of it to matt

This sounds incredibly nihilistic. I don’t think it’s helpful to eschew personal action with the idea that we have to do collective action for any of it to matter. Personal action is contagious and helps create the impetus for collective action. Heck, democracy as an institution relies on individuals making small actions (votes) that make no difference individually but collectively determine who runs the city, state, and country. So this is ultimately a sort of nihilistic argument, maybe a sort of rationale for not taking action.

godelski 4y ago
It's not nihilistic nor defeatist. It is saying that the playing field can't be this uneven and expect collective action. Which means there is a clear solution. Ensuring that no one is above the collective moral code.
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  It gives you way more moral authority to argue for these sorts of things if you’re actually taking personal action ala Greta Thunberg (who has inspired me to change my personal emissions, and to support stronger collective actions).
  - godelski 4y ago
    I agree with you here. But we aren't talking about my actions, we are talking about how to cultivate a larger collective action. I completely agree with you and I specifically mention Gates because he is a big climate advocate. I don't believe that any of the information he is spreading is wrong or even misleading, but that his actions often don't align with his speech. Though I will admit that there is a nuanced discussion to be had here given that he substantially invests in climate research and technologies to decarbonize the world, but I also wouldn't blame anyone for thinking he's a hack given that his personal footprint is several orders of magnitude above the median American (which is even higher than the median Westerner). We do have a current culture of defeatism because it looks like you can just buy your way out of all this. But if you are making the argument that actions speak louder than words, I'd fully agree.

godelski 4y ago

It's not nihilistic nor defeatist. It is saying that the playing field can't be this uneven and expect collective action. Which means there is a clear solution. Ensuring that no one is above the collective moral code.

Robotbeat 4y ago
It gives you way more moral authority to argue for these sorts of things if you’re actually taking personal action ala Greta Thunberg (who has inspired me to change my personal emissions, and to support stronger collective actions).
- godelski 4y ago
  I agree with you here. But we aren't talking about my actions, we are talking about how to cultivate a larger collective action. I completely agree with you and I specifically mention Gates because he is a big climate advocate. I don't believe that any of the information he is spreading is wrong or even misleading, but that his actions often don't align with his speech. Though I will admit that there is a nuanced discussion to be had here given that he substantially invests in climate research and technologies to decarbonize the world, but I also wouldn't blame anyone for thinking he's a hack given that his personal footprint is several orders of magnitude above the median American (which is even higher than the median Westerner). We do have a current culture of defeatism because it looks like you can just buy your way out of all this. But if you are making the argument that actions speak louder than words, I'd fully agree.