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The fact that bail bonds are even a private industry... ...I don't get it. In my country, technically there's a bail bond of $500 due to an archaic law, advanc

The fact that bail bonds are even a private industry... ...I don't get it. In my country, technically there's a bail bond of $500 due to an archaic law, advanced to you by the Police, and you have to pay them it if you breach bail conditions. In reality, if you breach bail, your arrest will become high priority, and you're very likely going into the remand wing once arrested until you can appear in front of a judge, and then you'll also be facing a charge for breaching bail, in addition to the charges you already faced. And breaching bail is an offense that nearly guarantees that the judge will remand you into custody until your trial date, which could be 3 - 6 months away. So there's no need for monetary bonds, because the existing consequences are severe enough.

edgyquant 4y ago
The problem is bail though. Bail bondsman are a life saver to a person who can’t afford their bail and have to work in the morning. Obviously being rough comes with the job, but most bondsman aren’t villains they provide a service during a time of bad policy.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > The problem is bail though. No, the problem is not conditional release (bail), or even the financial penalty (bail amount) that is assigned in advance in the even the conditions are broken. The particular conditions may be problematic, especially when they (say) require, in practice, either a deposit or other security in the full value of the potential penalty or a contract with a licensed bail agent (which some states, and the federal system, generally do not.) But… > Bail bondsman are a life saver to a person who can’t afford their bail and have to work in the morning. Obviously being rough comes with the job, but most bondsman aren’t villains they provide a service during a time of bad policy. …except that bail bondsmen are a major force lobbying state governments for the policies which create the need. They are working very hard to set up, and preserve, the conditions that make them seem like lifesavers.
  - orlp 4y ago
    The arsonist fireman might seem like a lifesaver if you aren't aware he is the one that put your house on fire.
HyperSane 4y ago
Allowing someone to borrow money to pay bail completely defeats the purpose. It isn't legal in every state though.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- charcircuit 4y ago
  In doesn't defeat the purpose since you have to pay back the loan yourself
- 13of40 4y ago
  I think the worse effect of the bail loan system is that for anyone who doesn't have enough cash on hand to cover it now has to pay the loan fee (or sit in jail and miss work, etc). If your bail is $100K and you need to take out a loan for it, that's $10K out of pocket regardless of whether or not you're found guilty. I would guess that half the people in this thread could just pay it and walk, and for the other half it would be devastating.
eastbound 4y ago
> your arrest will become high priority Most Western’s police forces are completely dysfunctional. France isn’t able to deport a non-French imam performing hate speech on French soil and living at the same address for months[1]. Police and prison forces are often caught performing lip service against both terrorism or white collar crime, practically all the cases of terrorism now include an attacker who has been liberated 2 to 50 times after murder attempts[2], and police/prison forces seem to be using law to excuse liberating obviously-dangerous people rather than using law to keep them in. So, the theory that if you break bail, you become arrestable, needs to meet actual practices in that country. Let’s hope the US govt sees enough political interest in finishing SBF to actually ensure he doesn’t flee. [1] https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-12-08-moroccan-imam-iquioussen-undesirable-%22on-european-soil%22--according-to-belgium.HkWOdWjJ_i.html https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-12-08-moroccan-imam-iquioussen... [2] For example William M in yesterday’s Paris attack (Article in French) https://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/plusieurs-blesses-apres-des-coups-de-feu-a-paris-un-homme-interpelle-23-12-2022-75IG6N726ZH4XF6GQ4AF2OQMPU.php https://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/plusieurs-blesses-apres-d...
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  K
pantalaimon 4y ago
As I understand it the bail system exists because in the US the state has no idea where you live, you don’t have to register your place of residence. But I might be wrong about that.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  Hmm, true. Often in my country bail conditions involve a curfew usually from 9 or 10pm, and Police will turn up at your stated address at 10:01pm, and if you're not there, boom, breached, arrest warrant. But, given the fragmented nature of policing in the US, I can see how what works here might not work there.
Amezarak 4y ago
People misunderstand the US bail system. You can pay your bail yourself. Say a judge gives you a $5k bail. You give the government 5k and they hold it until your case is complete. Then they either return it or they deduct your fines etc from it and return anything left. Most people don’t do this. They go to a bail bond company, which charges them $500 and then puts up the 5k for them. They get the 5k back when the defendant shows up and keep the $500. People do skip out on bail pretty regularly, so there’s no guarantee the bondsman gets his money back. But he’s invested in finding the skipper at least as much as the government. At least in theory. The US generally doesn’t go after people very hard for skipping out on bail, they just wait until you get detained for some other crime and then arrest you for having a warrant out. Well, sometimes they still let you go after that.

edgyquant 4y ago

The problem is bail though. Bail bondsman are a life saver to a person who can’t afford their bail and have to work in the morning. Obviously being rough comes with the job, but most bondsman aren’t villains they provide a service during a time of bad policy.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> The problem is bail though. No, the problem is not conditional release (bail), or even the financial penalty (bail amount) that is assigned in advance in the even the conditions are broken. The particular conditions may be problematic, especially when they (say) require, in practice, either a deposit or other security in the full value of the potential penalty or a contract with a licensed bail agent (which some states, and the federal system, generally do not.) But… > Bail bondsman are a life saver to a person who can’t afford their bail and have to work in the morning. Obviously being rough comes with the job, but most bondsman aren’t villains they provide a service during a time of bad policy. …except that bail bondsmen are a major force lobbying state governments for the policies which create the need. They are working very hard to set up, and preserve, the conditions that make them seem like lifesavers.
- orlp 4y ago
  The arsonist fireman might seem like a lifesaver if you aren't aware he is the one that put your house on fire.

HyperSane 4y ago

Allowing someone to borrow money to pay bail completely defeats the purpose. It isn't legal in every state though.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
charcircuit 4y ago
In doesn't defeat the purpose since you have to pay back the loan yourself
13of40 4y ago
I think the worse effect of the bail loan system is that for anyone who doesn't have enough cash on hand to cover it now has to pay the loan fee (or sit in jail and miss work, etc). If your bail is $100K and you need to take out a loan for it, that's $10K out of pocket regardless of whether or not you're found guilty. I would guess that half the people in this thread could just pay it and walk, and for the other half it would be devastating.

eastbound 4y ago

> your arrest will become high priority Most Western’s police forces are completely dysfunctional. France isn’t able to deport a non-French imam performing hate speech on French soil and living at the same address for months[1]. Police and prison forces are often caught performing lip service against both terrorism or white collar crime, practically all the cases of terrorism now include an attacker who has been liberated 2 to 50 times after murder attempts[2], and police/prison forces seem to be using law to excuse liberating obviously-dangerous people rather than using law to keep them in. So, the theory that if you break bail, you become arrestable, needs to meet actual practices in that country. Let’s hope the US govt sees enough political interest in finishing SBF to actually ensure he doesn’t flee. [1] https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-12-08-moroccan-imam-iquioussen-undesirable-%22on-european-soil%22--according-to-belgium.HkWOdWjJ_i.html https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-12-08-moroccan-imam-iquioussen... [2] For example William M in yesterday’s Paris attack (Article in French) https://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/plusieurs-blesses-apres-des-coups-de-feu-a-paris-un-homme-interpelle-23-12-2022-75IG6N726ZH4XF6GQ4AF2OQMPU.php https://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/plusieurs-blesses-apres-d...

EdwardDiego 4y ago
K

pantalaimon 4y ago

As I understand it the bail system exists because in the US the state has no idea where you live, you don’t have to register your place of residence. But I might be wrong about that.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
Hmm, true. Often in my country bail conditions involve a curfew usually from 9 or 10pm, and Police will turn up at your stated address at 10:01pm, and if you're not there, boom, breached, arrest warrant. But, given the fragmented nature of policing in the US, I can see how what works here might not work there.

Amezarak 4y ago

People misunderstand the US bail system. You can pay your bail yourself. Say a judge gives you a $5k bail. You give the government 5k and they hold it until your case is complete. Then they either return it or they deduct your fines etc from it and return anything left. Most people don’t do this. They go to a bail bond company, which charges them $500 and then puts up the 5k for them. They get the 5k back when the defendant shows up and keep the $500. People do skip out on bail pretty regularly, so there’s no guarantee the bondsman gets his money back. But he’s invested in finding the skipper at least as much as the government. At least in theory. The US generally doesn’t go after people very hard for skipping out on bail, they just wait until you get detained for some other crime and then arrest you for having a warrant out. Well, sometimes they still let you go after that.