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I don't like the framing of this article (though the facts it presents about how SBF's bail works are good). In particular these parts stuck out at me: > How,

I don't like the framing of this article (though the facts it presents about how SBF's bail works are good). In particular these parts stuck out at me: > How, you may ask, does a dude who is so clearly impervious to reality, who had to be arrested in the Bahamas, and who is accused of billions of dollars in fraud, get out on bail? Fair question. Why shouldn't he get out on bail?? He hasn't been convicted of a crime. He's not posing an imminent risk to the community that requires keeping him locked up while he hasn't yet been proven to have done anything wrong. > So: is the bail surprising? Yes. Is it a travesty of justice? That’s a philosophical question. Is it legally wrong, or outside the scope of what can or should happen under the federal bail system? No. I don't find the bail surprising at all. Getting bail is routine. Sure, many people can't afford it, but obviously SBF can (and this article spells out exactly how).

deleted 4y ago
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gruez 4y ago
> I don't like the framing of this article (though the facts it presents about how SBF's bail works are good). In particular these parts stuck out at me: > > How, you may ask, does a dude who is so clearly impervious to reality, who had to be arrested in the Bahamas, and who is accused of billions of dollars in fraud, get out on bail? Fair question. >Why shouldn't he get out on bail?? He hasn't been convicted of a crime. He's not posing an imminent risk to the community that requires keeping him locked up while he hasn't yet been proven to have done anything wrong. The article is framed that way because it seems to be a fairly popular belief that whether you're granted or denied bail should be dependent on the severity of the crime you're accused of (ie. you're accused of stealing billions, then you should be denied bail). Of course, that's not how the bail system works, but I can understand why people might believe that. To an first approximation, that theory fits with casual observations of when bail is granted or denied. For instance, shoplifting isn't a very serious crime and bail is likely to be granted, but murder is a serious crime and bail is likely to be denied.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  I think the likelihood of being provided bill depends on whether or not the accused has risk of criminal behavior or flight. SBF has neither and he has proved as such by voluntarily submitting himself to extradition
nearbuy 4y ago
Agreed. In an ideal world, we don't want people who haven't been found guilty sitting in jail for up to a year awaiting their trial. They're still presumed innocent at that point, and they could be found innocent at trial. In reality, we have to deal with things like serial killers (where even though they could be innocent, it's dangerous to have suspected serial killers in public) or flight risks. Jail and bail are our solutions to these issues. But this should be seen as something we do reluctantly and only when necessary, not as a punishment.
sacnoradhq 4y ago
1. There are ~800k people in pretrial detention in the US who are locked-up for the "crime" of being poor. 2. The US has the highest incarceration rate per capita. 3. The outrage bait of this article is to promote class divisions, that somehow being poor leads to one conclusion and rich to another WRT bail. 4. His parents put up their house (suppose it's worth $6 megabucks), he has to wear an ankle monitor, they took his passport, and he can't have firearms in his possession. It's curious that he was allowed to "make bail" against $250 megabucks for presumably much less than a "bail bond" would charge. 5. It appears they will be fighting this with pricey lawyers rather than plutocrat island escape plan 7.
HDThoreaun 4y ago
Yea this article comes at from completely the wrong point of view. People who have not been convicted and have no clear and obvious reason why they shouldn’t be allowed out of jail deserve to be free until they are convicted. The fact that so many poor people aren’t in a position to make that reality is the real travesty.

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gruez 4y ago

> I don't like the framing of this article (though the facts it presents about how SBF's bail works are good). In particular these parts stuck out at me: > > How, you may ask, does a dude who is so clearly impervious to reality, who had to be arrested in the Bahamas, and who is accused of billions of dollars in fraud, get out on bail? Fair question. >Why shouldn't he get out on bail?? He hasn't been convicted of a crime. He's not posing an imminent risk to the community that requires keeping him locked up while he hasn't yet been proven to have done anything wrong. The article is framed that way because it seems to be a fairly popular belief that whether you're granted or denied bail should be dependent on the severity of the crime you're accused of (ie. you're accused of stealing billions, then you should be denied bail). Of course, that's not how the bail system works, but I can understand why people might believe that. To an first approximation, that theory fits with casual observations of when bail is granted or denied. For instance, shoplifting isn't a very serious crime and bail is likely to be granted, but murder is a serious crime and bail is likely to be denied.

hackernewds 4y ago
I think the likelihood of being provided bill depends on whether or not the accused has risk of criminal behavior or flight. SBF has neither and he has proved as such by voluntarily submitting himself to extradition

nearbuy 4y ago

Agreed. In an ideal world, we don't want people who haven't been found guilty sitting in jail for up to a year awaiting their trial. They're still presumed innocent at that point, and they could be found innocent at trial. In reality, we have to deal with things like serial killers (where even though they could be innocent, it's dangerous to have suspected serial killers in public) or flight risks. Jail and bail are our solutions to these issues. But this should be seen as something we do reluctantly and only when necessary, not as a punishment.

sacnoradhq 4y ago

1. There are ~800k people in pretrial detention in the US who are locked-up for the "crime" of being poor. 2. The US has the highest incarceration rate per capita. 3. The outrage bait of this article is to promote class divisions, that somehow being poor leads to one conclusion and rich to another WRT bail. 4. His parents put up their house (suppose it's worth $6 megabucks), he has to wear an ankle monitor, they took his passport, and he can't have firearms in his possession. It's curious that he was allowed to "make bail" against $250 megabucks for presumably much less than a "bail bond" would charge. 5. It appears they will be fighting this with pricey lawyers rather than plutocrat island escape plan 7.

HDThoreaun 4y ago

Yea this article comes at from completely the wrong point of view. People who have not been convicted and have no clear and obvious reason why they shouldn’t be allowed out of jail deserve to be free until they are convicted. The fact that so many poor people aren’t in a position to make that reality is the real travesty.