4 ms·

its never like that, somebody doesn't just decide to flip the evil switch, and from that day forward everything is horrible. Its a long process of acclimatizat

its never like that, somebody doesn't just decide to flip the evil switch, and from that day forward everything is horrible. Its a long process of acclimatization, don't believe me? Take a look at android, which in most respects is far more locked down than any desktop operating system, yet is hailed as "open".

frou_dh 15y ago
These "appliance-like" computers are a new category, and the ongoing topic of their ease-of-use vs. flexibility is not black and white. As long as I also have a proper computer, I welcome the simplicity of the tablet. If it looks like I will no longer have the option of buying or owning a proper computer, I'll join you with the pitchforks.
- throwaway64 15y ago
  by that point, the interests have already become strongly entrenched, and its almost impossible to stop. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
- freshhawk 15y ago
  ease-of-use vs. flexibility is a false dichotomy, at least in the way we're using "flexibility" here. Apple made it seem like ease of use and crippling software for lock-in and DRM reasons are in some way related because they did both of those things so well but they are independent decisions. It's a great argument for the anti-technology side because it seems to make sense to those that aren't technical, but let's not start spouting that fallacy on hacker news like it's actually true.
  - frou_dh 15y ago
    Ease-of-use wasn't the best phrase for what I meant. Perhaps fully coherent experience is better. But I still believe the gist of it, so proceed to pity me. I think a more containable example of this balance is the iPad having no removable storage (like an SD card). On one hand it means fat margins on selling higher capacity models, but it also eliminates a whole class of issues around not being able to rely on apps (or their data/media) always being present. I would welcome more freedom on the iPad. If a switch showed up in the advanced settings that allowed side-loading of unsigned apps, that would be great. But it's not a deal breaker for what is a completely auxiliary device compared to a proper computer.
    - efnx 15y ago
      You can always jail break your iPad, which in America is legal, I think :)
      - frou_dh 15y ago
        I know about jailbreaking, but it's incidental.
  - sirclueless 15y ago
    I disagree. I think there is a very real dichotomy between ease-of-use and flexibility, where flexibility is defined as the ability to run arbitrary software from arbitrary sources. Ease-of-use in the real world is only partially a user-interface design issue, even though that is what software devs spend all day talking about. Turning on a device and being sure that no viruses are going to infect your computer, no malicious people are going to steal your email, and your device will probably just work is a giant ease-of-use feature. It makes your device easier-to-use when you don't have to worry about what your software will do, and that only comes when every single piece of software on your device comes from an authorized source that has been vetted by fairly reliable people who have the power to remotely fix problems on your device (for example, removing apps that turn out to be malicious). Don't kid yourself, even though you might disagree philosophically, removing developer flexibility is very much an ease-of-use feature for consumers.
ugh 15y ago
I’m first and foremost worried about laws, not companies selling products.
protomyth 15y ago
For me, the "evil switch" is only app store apps are installable. That is the day I switch from OS X and why I am not going to give Windows 8 a chance even though I think they may have got it right this time.

frou_dh 15y ago

These "appliance-like" computers are a new category, and the ongoing topic of their ease-of-use vs. flexibility is not black and white. As long as I also have a proper computer, I welcome the simplicity of the tablet. If it looks like I will no longer have the option of buying or owning a proper computer, I'll join you with the pitchforks.

throwaway64 15y ago
by that point, the interests have already become strongly entrenched, and its almost impossible to stop. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
freshhawk 15y ago
ease-of-use vs. flexibility is a false dichotomy, at least in the way we're using "flexibility" here. Apple made it seem like ease of use and crippling software for lock-in and DRM reasons are in some way related because they did both of those things so well but they are independent decisions. It's a great argument for the anti-technology side because it seems to make sense to those that aren't technical, but let's not start spouting that fallacy on hacker news like it's actually true.
- frou_dh 15y ago
  Ease-of-use wasn't the best phrase for what I meant. Perhaps fully coherent experience is better. But I still believe the gist of it, so proceed to pity me. I think a more containable example of this balance is the iPad having no removable storage (like an SD card). On one hand it means fat margins on selling higher capacity models, but it also eliminates a whole class of issues around not being able to rely on apps (or their data/media) always being present. I would welcome more freedom on the iPad. If a switch showed up in the advanced settings that allowed side-loading of unsigned apps, that would be great. But it's not a deal breaker for what is a completely auxiliary device compared to a proper computer.
  - efnx 15y ago
    You can always jail break your iPad, which in America is legal, I think :)
    - frou_dh 15y ago
      I know about jailbreaking, but it's incidental.
- sirclueless 15y ago
  I disagree. I think there is a very real dichotomy between ease-of-use and flexibility, where flexibility is defined as the ability to run arbitrary software from arbitrary sources. Ease-of-use in the real world is only partially a user-interface design issue, even though that is what software devs spend all day talking about. Turning on a device and being sure that no viruses are going to infect your computer, no malicious people are going to steal your email, and your device will probably just work is a giant ease-of-use feature. It makes your device easier-to-use when you don't have to worry about what your software will do, and that only comes when every single piece of software on your device comes from an authorized source that has been vetted by fairly reliable people who have the power to remotely fix problems on your device (for example, removing apps that turn out to be malicious). Don't kid yourself, even though you might disagree philosophically, removing developer flexibility is very much an ease-of-use feature for consumers.

ugh 15y ago

I’m first and foremost worried about laws, not companies selling products.

protomyth 15y ago

For me, the "evil switch" is only app store apps are installable. That is the day I switch from OS X and why I am not going to give Windows 8 a chance even though I think they may have got it right this time.