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> Where does Tolkien describe that? It's discussed extensively in History of the Lord of the Rings. The sequel was originally intended to have a tone as light

by deeg 4y ago

> Where does Tolkien describe that? It's discussed extensively in History of the Lord of the Rings. The sequel was originally intended to have a tone as light as The Hobbit (which somewhat excuses his original "Bingo" Baggins). Tolkien had no idea where he was going when he started writing; he just knew he wanted to start with a party and somewhere include an off-hand story involving Tom Bombadil. He eventually decides that the protagonist (Bilbo/Frodo/Bingo/whoever) will go to Rivendell. He wrote a few chapters with all this in mind, still in a light tone. He went back to rewrite some things and he decides to add a passage where Frodo hides to surprise/scare Gandalf, who is coming down the road on his horse. Tolkien writes the part where Gandalf stops and starts sniffing, probably intending for Gandalf to ruin the surprise. But then, with no known explanation, he scratches out Gandalf and writes "black rider" (or something close to that). In the margin he writes "who is the black rider?". He then pauses his rewrite so he can ponder who this new character is. This starts him down the new, darker, path that leads to the Ring and Sauron. The sniffing rider eventually becomes a Nazgul. Fascinating stuff!

jfengel 4y ago
That's an important point: Tom Bombadil was another character that Tolkien had already created, independent of both the Middle-earth stuff and The Hobbit. His inclusion in the book is awkward and people have tons of questions about it because it doesn't really fit. Tom Bombadil is more of a nursery-rhyme character, and would have fit better into a Hobbit sequel than what became The Lord of the Rings. His continued inclusion reflects the way Tolkien was loath to give up an idea once he'd written it, leading to a chapter that is at once incredibly evocative and maddeningly uninformative.
ordu 4y ago
Wow. I always was flummoxed by the first part of the story, especially by the fox thinking about hobbits sleeping under a tree. It just feels to be out of place in the book. An echo of The Hobbit. But if the real story of LOTR started later it becomes clearer.
- NobodyNada 4y ago
  Interesting —- personally, I love the shift in tone as the story develops, and thought it fit perfectly. A very strong recurring theme in the story is the distinction between happy, carefree hobbits; comfortable in the Shire and ignorant and oblivious to the world around them; and the vastness of that world and the dangers it poses to their way of life. The tone of the story follows the hobbits’ perspective on its events, and shifts dramatically as their mindsets change: as the hobbits travel further from the Shire and get better acquainted with the world at large, we get to experience the change in perspective alongside them. We start with the cheerful birthday party in the Shire, and Frodo’s departure — written in a similar tone to The Hobbit as Frodo considers himself to be retracing Bilbo’s steps and beginning an adventure of his own. It starts to get darker and more dangerous (but still with Tom Bombadil around to save the day, at least at first); and once the hobbits leave the Shire they suddenly no longer feel safe or in control. By the time we get to Rivendell it’s clear that the hobbits are way out of their league, and that the plot is way bigger than just Frodo and his friends. And as the story develops, and the hobbits split up and become involved in the war from different areas of Middle-earth, this change in perspective continues and the tone continually gets grander and darker. It’s like a “zoom-out” effect that starts at the birthday party as a carefree fairy-tale and culminates at the destruction of the Ring as a massive, high-stakes epic fantasy. It’s interesting (and totally makes sense to me) that the story developed this way in Tolkien’s mind too; and I think it’s clever that he decided to make it a part of the story rather than rewriting everything to have a “consistent” tone. I think it makes it a lot easier to follow the story and a lot easier to get to know the characters than if it had started like RoTK from page one.
  - gpderetta 4y ago
    You can see the change clearly when the hobbits come back at the end of the book. They left as comfortable town people, scared of the world and in need of help; they return as veteran adventurers capable of dispatching the local evil on their own.

by deeg 4y ago

jfengel 4y ago

That's an important point: Tom Bombadil was another character that Tolkien had already created, independent of both the Middle-earth stuff and The Hobbit. His inclusion in the book is awkward and people have tons of questions about it because it doesn't really fit. Tom Bombadil is more of a nursery-rhyme character, and would have fit better into a Hobbit sequel than what became The Lord of the Rings. His continued inclusion reflects the way Tolkien was loath to give up an idea once he'd written it, leading to a chapter that is at once incredibly evocative and maddeningly uninformative.

ordu 4y ago

Wow. I always was flummoxed by the first part of the story, especially by the fox thinking about hobbits sleeping under a tree. It just feels to be out of place in the book. An echo of The Hobbit. But if the real story of LOTR started later it becomes clearer.

NobodyNada 4y ago
Interesting —- personally, I love the shift in tone as the story develops, and thought it fit perfectly. A very strong recurring theme in the story is the distinction between happy, carefree hobbits; comfortable in the Shire and ignorant and oblivious to the world around them; and the vastness of that world and the dangers it poses to their way of life. The tone of the story follows the hobbits’ perspective on its events, and shifts dramatically as their mindsets change: as the hobbits travel further from the Shire and get better acquainted with the world at large, we get to experience the change in perspective alongside them. We start with the cheerful birthday party in the Shire, and Frodo’s departure — written in a similar tone to The Hobbit as Frodo considers himself to be retracing Bilbo’s steps and beginning an adventure of his own. It starts to get darker and more dangerous (but still with Tom Bombadil around to save the day, at least at first); and once the hobbits leave the Shire they suddenly no longer feel safe or in control. By the time we get to Rivendell it’s clear that the hobbits are way out of their league, and that the plot is way bigger than just Frodo and his friends. And as the story develops, and the hobbits split up and become involved in the war from different areas of Middle-earth, this change in perspective continues and the tone continually gets grander and darker. It’s like a “zoom-out” effect that starts at the birthday party as a carefree fairy-tale and culminates at the destruction of the Ring as a massive, high-stakes epic fantasy. It’s interesting (and totally makes sense to me) that the story developed this way in Tolkien’s mind too; and I think it’s clever that he decided to make it a part of the story rather than rewriting everything to have a “consistent” tone. I think it makes it a lot easier to follow the story and a lot easier to get to know the characters than if it had started like RoTK from page one.
- gpderetta 4y ago
  You can see the change clearly when the hobbits come back at the end of the book. They left as comfortable town people, scared of the world and in need of help; they return as veteran adventurers capable of dispatching the local evil on their own.