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People who blindly argue for working remotely don't understand that there's a huge difference between getting shit done and building a company. You can't develo

by kenneth 15y ago

People who blindly argue for working remotely don't understand that there's a huge difference between getting shit done and building a company. You can't develop a company culture without putting people together, physically. If your goal is simply finish executing on that spec, and if you see workers simply as a resource to be optimized, then you're right and remote workers are the cheaper, more efficient way to go. But if, on the other hand, what you're building is the company itself: a team of smart, like-minded people who like each other and work well together, there's no substitute for physical proximity. Happy hours, being able to see what everybody else is working on, and working alongside everybody else with delivery pizza at 9pm when in crunch mode… these are things that build camaraderie between team members. It's similar to a group of soldiers in the trenches: you need to know that your fellow soldiers are your friends, and that they've got your back. The whole is more than the sum of its part. But only when you have a great company culture gluing the parts together—with remote workers, the whole is just the sum of its parts.

nirvdrum 15y ago
The other side of this token is every single person I've seen complain about getting passed over for a gig because they didn't want to relocate (there's a lot of them on Twitter) is only interested in putting in their hours and doing a job. Arguably there's nothing wrong with that. But when building a company, I want people to care more about than just lines of code. Actually, I want people to do that in general (I have worked at bigger companies too).
- dhh 15y ago
  I've found this to be completely false for every one of our remote workers. Nobody at 37signals fits that description and as mentions in the article, the majority works remotely.
  - nirvdrum 15y ago
    That's good to hear. I've really only had success with people willing to work some time in the office or who would have relocated, but we allowed to work remotely (this is over several companies). The folks that absolutely demand working remotely don't carry themselves well in public channels, which is likely the root of my stereotyping.
- ryanwaggoner 15y ago
  While I can't comment on your personal experience, what you're implying here is really offensive: the idea that only clock-punchers aren't willing to relocate for a job. Most of the best people in any field care about more than just their work and have a whole life outside their job. Relocating means impact on many things, like leaving your community, uprooting your family, impact on spouse's career, pulling kids out of school, moving away from family, etc. My guess is that most of the people who are willing to easily drop everything and relocate for a job don't have much to drop in the first place, because they're single twenty-somethings.
itsboring 15y ago
I see where you're coming from, but I don't really agree that you can't build a company culture remotely. As usual, this all depends on the team. I'm part of a small company and we generally work remotely with occasional meet-ups. This is, of course, just my anecdote, but I feel that we're building a great company culture. Part of this may be the fact that most of us have been using IRC for 10+ years; we grew up on it. Communicating that way is as natural to us as face-to-face. In fact, we often talk on IRC even if we're in the same building. It's easier to paste links, reference documentation, and avoid constant interruption. We're generally signed in 24/7 and talk at all hours. If you get those people that sign on to skype 20 minutes a day and you never hear from them otherwise, then yes, I completely agree that it just won't work as well.
inovica 15y ago
I, along with our remote workers, have built a company with a great culture. The first time we met in person was 5 years after we first started working together. We share a lot of non-work 'stuff' - most of us have had kids, so we share photos, send presents, chat about cultures (in the different countries) and when I first met the people who were working for me I knew them really really well. My perception of them in person was exactly as it had been through our remote conversations. Our company is entirely remote - we got rid of our office in 2002 and we have designers who work locally (but from home) and we have other people in California, two places in Russia and Argentina. We're still a small team, as there's 17 of us, but we have a great culture. I'm just saying that it is possible to do it.
nosequel 15y ago
"You can't develop a company culture without putting people together, physically." I couldn't disagree more. I've worked at several companies now, and my current company is my first distributed gig. It is by far the best and strongest culture I've been a part of. If you have good people who take the time to skype and chat, being around each other makes little difference.

by kenneth 15y ago

nirvdrum 15y ago

The other side of this token is every single person I've seen complain about getting passed over for a gig because they didn't want to relocate (there's a lot of them on Twitter) is only interested in putting in their hours and doing a job. Arguably there's nothing wrong with that. But when building a company, I want people to care more about than just lines of code. Actually, I want people to do that in general (I have worked at bigger companies too).

dhh 15y ago
I've found this to be completely false for every one of our remote workers. Nobody at 37signals fits that description and as mentions in the article, the majority works remotely.
- nirvdrum 15y ago
  That's good to hear. I've really only had success with people willing to work some time in the office or who would have relocated, but we allowed to work remotely (this is over several companies). The folks that absolutely demand working remotely don't carry themselves well in public channels, which is likely the root of my stereotyping.
ryanwaggoner 15y ago
While I can't comment on your personal experience, what you're implying here is really offensive: the idea that only clock-punchers aren't willing to relocate for a job. Most of the best people in any field care about more than just their work and have a whole life outside their job. Relocating means impact on many things, like leaving your community, uprooting your family, impact on spouse's career, pulling kids out of school, moving away from family, etc. My guess is that most of the people who are willing to easily drop everything and relocate for a job don't have much to drop in the first place, because they're single twenty-somethings.

itsboring 15y ago

I see where you're coming from, but I don't really agree that you can't build a company culture remotely. As usual, this all depends on the team. I'm part of a small company and we generally work remotely with occasional meet-ups. This is, of course, just my anecdote, but I feel that we're building a great company culture. Part of this may be the fact that most of us have been using IRC for 10+ years; we grew up on it. Communicating that way is as natural to us as face-to-face. In fact, we often talk on IRC even if we're in the same building. It's easier to paste links, reference documentation, and avoid constant interruption. We're generally signed in 24/7 and talk at all hours. If you get those people that sign on to skype 20 minutes a day and you never hear from them otherwise, then yes, I completely agree that it just won't work as well.

inovica 15y ago

I, along with our remote workers, have built a company with a great culture. The first time we met in person was 5 years after we first started working together. We share a lot of non-work 'stuff' - most of us have had kids, so we share photos, send presents, chat about cultures (in the different countries) and when I first met the people who were working for me I knew them really really well. My perception of them in person was exactly as it had been through our remote conversations. Our company is entirely remote - we got rid of our office in 2002 and we have designers who work locally (but from home) and we have other people in California, two places in Russia and Argentina. We're still a small team, as there's 17 of us, but we have a great culture. I'm just saying that it is possible to do it.

nosequel 15y ago

"You can't develop a company culture without putting people together, physically." I couldn't disagree more. I've worked at several companies now, and my current company is my first distributed gig. It is by far the best and strongest culture I've been a part of. If you have good people who take the time to skype and chat, being around each other makes little difference.