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If anything, I think Lyft/Uber has gotten us stuck in a local minimum. Yes, the user experience for requesting a ride is still a huge improvement over tradition

If anything, I think Lyft/Uber has gotten us stuck in a local minimum. Yes, the user experience for requesting a ride is still a huge improvement over traditional taxi dispatching. I agree that if we were to rewind history, we would get to the same place because ride sharing apps do provide a benefit over traditional taxis in that regard. But from a consumer perspective, surge pricing is a regression from the predictability of metered fares. Consumers would prefer a system that blends both, but Uber and Lyft have zero incentive to standardized pricing until someone else can compete with them from a ride hailing ergonomics perspective and undercut their prices, and the way yellow cab companies are strucured makes it difficult for them to organize around a common app for hailing rides.

crazygringo 4y ago
> But from a consumer perspective, surge pricing is a regression from the predictability of metered fares. No, in what are now surge pricing situations, you used to usually simply not be able to get a cab at all. A tiny fraction of the time you'd get lucky and get a cab, maybe after waiting on a street corner for an hour trying to hail one. But usually you just wouldn't get anything. Surge pricing removes the gamble and doesn't waste people's time. Either you pay lots for a ride soon, or you find an alternative means of transportation. It replaces unknowns with knowns. It's an improvement.
- Jochim 4y ago
  > No, in what are now surge pricing situations, you used to usually simply not be able to get a cab at all. A tiny fraction of the time you'd get lucky and get a cab, maybe after waiting on a street corner for an hour trying to hail one. But usually you just wouldn't get anything. This does not line up with my experience at all. I see some of the worst surge pricing at non-peak times of day when it used to be easiest to get a taxi. This is most pronounced during the small hours where it's now nearly impossible to get a car. Even during peak times you'd call the taxi company and they'd give you an estimate of how long you'd be waiting. Peak times are fairly stable and most people are sensible enough to phone ahead of time to reduce the wait.
pseudo0 4y ago
Surge pricing is a feature for customers, not a bug. It means you can pay more to actually get a ride, rather than waiting 30 minutes to multiple hours for a cab. I paid $50 extra in surge pricing once to avoid missing a $1000 flight, and I made it through security with minutes to spare. If I had waited for a taxi I would have been screwed. Customers that are more price sensitive or need to get where they are going less urgently can arrange alternative transport or wait for prices to drop.
- Calavar 4y ago
  I disagree. I flew out to a professional society meeting a few months ago (i.e. high triple digits number of people converging on the convention center) and the airport taxi stand was packed. The line was moving very quickly. I'd estimate probably ten passengers being picked up every minute, but well over 100 people in line, which meant there was still a decent wait. The ride share pickup area was almost completely empty, with maybe one car stopping every two to three minutes. People were willing to wait 20 minutes in the cold, squeeze into a cab with two to three strangers, and put up with the extra stops/dropoffs because the of the price difference (Uber was charging something like 2.5x the airport taxi flat rate that night). If algorithmic pricing is a "feature" that incentivizes more drivers to get on the street, why were the airport taxis operating on a fixed pricing model moving so many more people in a surge situation? Uber/Lyft want to call surge pricing a "feature" but the reality is that (like many other companies in this tech bubble) they have been so irresponsible with staff bloat and overhead that switching to a premium pricing model whenever the opportunity arises is the only way they can keep the balance sheet near even.
  - pseudo0 4y ago
    That seems to indicate that taxis can't compete with Uber/Lyft's dispatch and logistics system, so they just wait somewhere with guaranteed customers. That's great if you happen to be at a hub where taxis hang out, but it sounds like lots of other people in the area also wanted a ride and didn't have a convenient airport taxi stand, causing the surge pricing for the region. For those people taxis are unavailable (because they are all queueing at the airport) so it's better to have the option of a ride at 2.5x than nothing.

crazygringo 4y ago

> But from a consumer perspective, surge pricing is a regression from the predictability of metered fares. No, in what are now surge pricing situations, you used to usually simply not be able to get a cab at all. A tiny fraction of the time you'd get lucky and get a cab, maybe after waiting on a street corner for an hour trying to hail one. But usually you just wouldn't get anything. Surge pricing removes the gamble and doesn't waste people's time. Either you pay lots for a ride soon, or you find an alternative means of transportation. It replaces unknowns with knowns. It's an improvement.

Jochim 4y ago
> No, in what are now surge pricing situations, you used to usually simply not be able to get a cab at all. A tiny fraction of the time you'd get lucky and get a cab, maybe after waiting on a street corner for an hour trying to hail one. But usually you just wouldn't get anything. This does not line up with my experience at all. I see some of the worst surge pricing at non-peak times of day when it used to be easiest to get a taxi. This is most pronounced during the small hours where it's now nearly impossible to get a car. Even during peak times you'd call the taxi company and they'd give you an estimate of how long you'd be waiting. Peak times are fairly stable and most people are sensible enough to phone ahead of time to reduce the wait.

pseudo0 4y ago

Surge pricing is a feature for customers, not a bug. It means you can pay more to actually get a ride, rather than waiting 30 minutes to multiple hours for a cab. I paid $50 extra in surge pricing once to avoid missing a $1000 flight, and I made it through security with minutes to spare. If I had waited for a taxi I would have been screwed. Customers that are more price sensitive or need to get where they are going less urgently can arrange alternative transport or wait for prices to drop.

Calavar 4y ago
I disagree. I flew out to a professional society meeting a few months ago (i.e. high triple digits number of people converging on the convention center) and the airport taxi stand was packed. The line was moving very quickly. I'd estimate probably ten passengers being picked up every minute, but well over 100 people in line, which meant there was still a decent wait. The ride share pickup area was almost completely empty, with maybe one car stopping every two to three minutes. People were willing to wait 20 minutes in the cold, squeeze into a cab with two to three strangers, and put up with the extra stops/dropoffs because the of the price difference (Uber was charging something like 2.5x the airport taxi flat rate that night). If algorithmic pricing is a "feature" that incentivizes more drivers to get on the street, why were the airport taxis operating on a fixed pricing model moving so many more people in a surge situation? Uber/Lyft want to call surge pricing a "feature" but the reality is that (like many other companies in this tech bubble) they have been so irresponsible with staff bloat and overhead that switching to a premium pricing model whenever the opportunity arises is the only way they can keep the balance sheet near even.
- pseudo0 4y ago
  That seems to indicate that taxis can't compete with Uber/Lyft's dispatch and logistics system, so they just wait somewhere with guaranteed customers. That's great if you happen to be at a hub where taxis hang out, but it sounds like lots of other people in the area also wanted a ride and didn't have a convenient airport taxi stand, causing the surge pricing for the region. For those people taxis are unavailable (because they are all queueing at the airport) so it's better to have the option of a ride at 2.5x than nothing.