4 ms·

He stole like 10 billion dollars from his customers. Not sure how much of it he managed to subsequently destroy vs. successfully convey to other people, but doe

He stole like 10 billion dollars from his customers. Not sure how much of it he managed to subsequently destroy vs. successfully convey to other people, but does that matter?

ethanbond 4y ago
Well one way in which it matters is that destroyed wealth is irrecoverable. It no longer exists. Stolen wealth might still exist somewhere and might be recoverable. Also is it $10B in stolen deposits?! I seem to be coming across a $1-2B figure but admittedly haven't been following super closely.
- anonymoushn 4y ago
  Yes, about $10b of customer funds. Funds misappropriated by Alameda and spent on VC investments may ultimately have become people's salaries. Some politicians have announced their intention to donate an amount of money equal to SBF's contributions of customer funds, but it's unclear whether they mean "donate to my own 501(c)(3)" or "return to FTX to be paid to creditors" and the phrasing certainly sounds more like the former. Most of the funds were probably embezzled (you will hear these people say "loaned" I guess) by FTX/Alameda executives or lost as part of Alameda's trading operations. Recovery of trading losses is extremely unlikely, especially trading losses that occurred long before the bankruptcy on venues other than FTX. SBF and BlockFi are currently arguing that each of them should receive the $441 million of Robinhood shares that SBF purchased using customer funds. "Hackers" stole about $500 million of customer funds from FTX US and FTX Intl immediately following the bankruptcy, and these funds have (mostly?) made their way into RenBTC and been bridged to native BTC and sent to mixers. Some FTX customers who withdrew funds as part of their normal operations will face clawbacks, and some other FTX customers such as Modulo Capital and @AlgodTrading who have essentially stolen from all other creditors will hopefully also face clawbacks, but the total amount recoverable this way is maybe $1-4 bn, and all of these people are creditors anyway, so giving the money to other creditors doesn't do anything to address the shortfall.

He stole like 10 billion dollars from his customers. Not sure how much of it he managed to subsequently destroy vs. successfully convey to other people, but does that matter?

ethanbond 4y ago

Well one way in which it matters is that destroyed wealth is irrecoverable. It no longer exists. Stolen wealth might still exist somewhere and might be recoverable. Also is it $10B in stolen deposits?! I seem to be coming across a $1-2B figure but admittedly haven't been following super closely.

anonymoushn 4y ago
Yes, about $10b of customer funds. Funds misappropriated by Alameda and spent on VC investments may ultimately have become people's salaries. Some politicians have announced their intention to donate an amount of money equal to SBF's contributions of customer funds, but it's unclear whether they mean "donate to my own 501(c)(3)" or "return to FTX to be paid to creditors" and the phrasing certainly sounds more like the former. Most of the funds were probably embezzled (you will hear these people say "loaned" I guess) by FTX/Alameda executives or lost as part of Alameda's trading operations. Recovery of trading losses is extremely unlikely, especially trading losses that occurred long before the bankruptcy on venues other than FTX. SBF and BlockFi are currently arguing that each of them should receive the $441 million of Robinhood shares that SBF purchased using customer funds. "Hackers" stole about $500 million of customer funds from FTX US and FTX Intl immediately following the bankruptcy, and these funds have (mostly?) made their way into RenBTC and been bridged to native BTC and sent to mixers. Some FTX customers who withdrew funds as part of their normal operations will face clawbacks, and some other FTX customers such as Modulo Capital and @AlgodTrading who have essentially stolen from all other creditors will hopefully also face clawbacks, but the total amount recoverable this way is maybe $1-4 bn, and all of these people are creditors anyway, so giving the money to other creditors doesn't do anything to address the shortfall.