3 ms·

He has a constitutional protection from cruel and unusual punishment. If there's no reason to believe he's dangerous to society, and he's presumed innocent, and

He has a constitutional protection from cruel and unusual punishment. If there's no reason to believe he's dangerous to society, and he's presumed innocent, and we can use a bond to ensure he'll appear, then there's no reason to hold him.

loeg 4y ago
> and we can use a bond to ensure he'll appear That is really the crux of the matter, and where people are (reasonably) disagreeing with you. Does a $4M bond (from his parents' assets, not his) and a $246M IOU really ensure SBF will show up in court rather than fleeing?
- maxbond 4y ago
  What's the reasoning why it wouldn't, and why are we forgetting that he's also wearing an ankle monitor?
  - LgWoodenBadger 4y ago
    An ankle monitor doesn't do anything to prevent you from fleeing, since it can be removed with any number of readily available tools.
    - maxbond 4y ago
      I'm sure it is possible to defeat an ankle monitor in some way, but I really doubt simply knocking it off will work (not to say you can't knock out off, but that this will be detected & interpreted as an escape attempt). The police aren't stupid. Reading about it a bit, it seems many of them are simple to remove (not sure what kind of monitor SBF is wearing), but that indeed, it will be detected immediately.
      - defen 4y ago
        Assuming someone is paying attention: https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/12/9b5b1eff724150/he-was-accused-of-killing-a-po.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/12/9b5b1eff724150/... Having someone pay attention is also all that you need to prevent the world's most wanted man from hanging himself in a federal prison in Manhattan.
    - loeg 4y ago
      I.e., scissors.
  - ffssffss 4y ago
    There are a lot of people building their understanding of this situation out of breathless headlines and misleading tweets. And I think there's an element of something like, "if he escapes, that means he really was a genius all along, and now I feel a little less bad for losing my money/believing in him".
ameister14 4y ago
technically he has a protection from punishment, period, without due process of law.
TheDong 4y ago
If staying in jail without bail were considered "cruel and unusual punishment", then it would be unconstitutional for anyone to be kept in jail. Cruel and unusual punishment does not apply here, and isn't really clearly defined regardless. I personally agree that not holding him is good fwiw. However, it also is horribly inconsistent. People who are guilty of driving while black, or non-violent drug offenses, or so on, are given much less generous treatment when it comes to unsecured bail, and when it comes to evaluating if they're a flight risk.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > People who are guilty of driving while black, or non-violent drug offenses, or so on, are given much less generous treatment when it comes to unsecured bail There's several factors at work here, but the most significant is that most offenders, especially most low-level offenders, are charged in state systems, and most (but not all, and this is changing, erratically) of the state systems rely much more heavily on financial conditions, and on secured bonds as the primary condition, in part due to very intense lobbying by the bail bonds industry to state governments (both directly and using astroturf groups to lobby the citizenry when their position is threatened.)

loeg 4y ago

> and we can use a bond to ensure he'll appear That is really the crux of the matter, and where people are (reasonably) disagreeing with you. Does a $4M bond (from his parents' assets, not his) and a $246M IOU really ensure SBF will show up in court rather than fleeing?

maxbond 4y ago
What's the reasoning why it wouldn't, and why are we forgetting that he's also wearing an ankle monitor?
- LgWoodenBadger 4y ago
  An ankle monitor doesn't do anything to prevent you from fleeing, since it can be removed with any number of readily available tools.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    I'm sure it is possible to defeat an ankle monitor in some way, but I really doubt simply knocking it off will work (not to say you can't knock out off, but that this will be detected & interpreted as an escape attempt). The police aren't stupid. Reading about it a bit, it seems many of them are simple to remove (not sure what kind of monitor SBF is wearing), but that indeed, it will be detected immediately.
    - defen 4y ago
      Assuming someone is paying attention: https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/12/9b5b1eff724150/he-was-accused-of-killing-a-po.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/12/9b5b1eff724150/... Having someone pay attention is also all that you need to prevent the world's most wanted man from hanging himself in a federal prison in Manhattan.
  - loeg 4y ago
    I.e., scissors.
- ffssffss 4y ago
  There are a lot of people building their understanding of this situation out of breathless headlines and misleading tweets. And I think there's an element of something like, "if he escapes, that means he really was a genius all along, and now I feel a little less bad for losing my money/believing in him".

ameister14 4y ago

technically he has a protection from punishment, period, without due process of law.

TheDong 4y ago

If staying in jail without bail were considered "cruel and unusual punishment", then it would be unconstitutional for anyone to be kept in jail. Cruel and unusual punishment does not apply here, and isn't really clearly defined regardless. I personally agree that not holding him is good fwiw. However, it also is horribly inconsistent. People who are guilty of driving while black, or non-violent drug offenses, or so on, are given much less generous treatment when it comes to unsecured bail, and when it comes to evaluating if they're a flight risk.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> People who are guilty of driving while black, or non-violent drug offenses, or so on, are given much less generous treatment when it comes to unsecured bail There's several factors at work here, but the most significant is that most offenders, especially most low-level offenders, are charged in state systems, and most (but not all, and this is changing, erratically) of the state systems rely much more heavily on financial conditions, and on secured bonds as the primary condition, in part due to very intense lobbying by the bail bonds industry to state governments (both directly and using astroturf groups to lobby the citizenry when their position is threatened.)