4 ms·

If he's such a flight risk he needs a 250m bond signed by multiple parties why not just keep him in jail? I don't get it.

maxbond 4y ago
He has a constitutional right to it. He's presumed innocent in the eyes of the law.
- rwmj 4y ago
  There's no constitutional right - people accused of murder are not (often) released on bail. The 8th Amendment only applies to bail amounts when bail is granted. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excessive_Bail_Clause#Preventive_detention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excessive_Bail_Clause#Preventi...
  - maxbond 4y ago
    He has a constitutional protection from cruel and unusual punishment. If there's no reason to believe he's dangerous to society, and he's presumed innocent, and we can use a bond to ensure he'll appear, then there's no reason to hold him.
    - loeg 4y ago
      > and we can use a bond to ensure he'll appear That is really the crux of the matter, and where people are (reasonably) disagreeing with you. Does a $4M bond (from his parents' assets, not his) and a $246M IOU really ensure SBF will show up in court rather than fleeing?
      - maxbond 4y ago
        What's the reasoning why it wouldn't, and why are we forgetting that he's also wearing an ankle monitor?
        LgWoodenBadger 4y ago
        An ankle monitor doesn't do anything to prevent you from fleeing, since it can be removed with any number of readily available tools.
        maxbond 4y ago
        I'm sure it is possible to defeat an ankle monitor in some way, but I really doubt simply knocking it off will work (not to say you can't knock out off, but that this will be detected & interpreted as an escape attempt). The police aren't stupid. Reading about it a bit, it seems many of them are simple to remove (not sure what kind of monitor SBF is wearing), but that indeed, it will be detected immediately.
        defen 4y ago
        Assuming someone is paying attention: https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/12/9b5b1eff724150/he-was-accused-of-killing-a-po.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/12/9b5b1eff724150/... Having someone pay attention is also all that you need to prevent the world's most wanted man from hanging himself in a federal prison in Manhattan.
        loeg 4y ago
        I.e., scissors.
        ffssffss 4y ago
        There are a lot of people building their understanding of this situation out of breathless headlines and misleading tweets. And I think there's an element of something like, "if he escapes, that means he really was a genius all along, and now I feel a little less bad for losing my money/believing in him".
    - ameister14 4y ago
      technically he has a protection from punishment, period, without due process of law.
    - TheDong 4y ago
      If staying in jail without bail were considered "cruel and unusual punishment", then it would be unconstitutional for anyone to be kept in jail. Cruel and unusual punishment does not apply here, and isn't really clearly defined regardless. I personally agree that not holding him is good fwiw. However, it also is horribly inconsistent. People who are guilty of driving while black, or non-violent drug offenses, or so on, are given much less generous treatment when it comes to unsecured bail, and when it comes to evaluating if they're a flight risk.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > People who are guilty of driving while black, or non-violent drug offenses, or so on, are given much less generous treatment when it comes to unsecured bail There's several factors at work here, but the most significant is that most offenders, especially most low-level offenders, are charged in state systems, and most (but not all, and this is changing, erratically) of the state systems rely much more heavily on financial conditions, and on secured bonds as the primary condition, in part due to very intense lobbying by the bail bonds industry to state governments (both directly and using astroturf groups to lobby the citizenry when their position is threatened.)
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    For anyone wanting more information on the 8th amendment. https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt8-2-2/ALDE_00000961/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt8-2-2/ALD... States also have their own amendments that can differ on bail as well.
- temp2022account 4y ago
  Agreed, I'd like to see SBF prosecuted as much as anyone else, but I want it to be a legal trial. His statements should be accepted in the most generous possible light, and the case against him should be ironclad enough to hold. (Otherwise there isn't much point to the justice system existing at large).
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    There isn't much point to the justice system if a rich dude can give them an iou for bond. Do you think if a poor person got 2500 bond they could give the court 4$ and and a im good for the rest of it?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- greenthrow 4y ago
  That's not really an answer. Many people are held without bond. The answer is he's from a well off family so he has good lawyers.
  - onenukecourse 4y ago
    People held without bond are in that situation for (presumably) extraordinary circumstances. Long history of violent behavior, huge flight risk. This is a punk (he is a prick) who wouldn't know how to wield a butter knife. He agreed not to have an extradition hearing in the Bahamas. He's hardly a danger to others or a flight risk.
- itslennysfault 4y ago
  No, he doesn't. If he was some random drug dealer that couldn't make bail he'd wait in jail for trial. The same rules should apply to him. Put up $25m (10%) or wait in jail. The bail amount was set at $250m because he is a substantial flight risk. Sitting in jail awaiting trial is not cruel or unusual. It's extremely common.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    No, people who commit street level crimes should be given the same grace he's receiving. Denying bail because we think this guy is extra guilty (as opposed to, say, because he has a history of domestic abuse, and releasing him could put people at risk) would be cruel and unusual, because it would be discretionary.
    - fanso99 4y ago
      The comment you are replying to did not say that he should be denied bail. Only that the rules should apply to him too. 10% is the most common requirement, he didn't meet it.
      - nkurz 4y ago
        Where are you getting that "10% is the most common requirement"? I think you may be confusing the common _non-refundable_ amount charged by private bail bondsmen for much smaller bails with an actual court requirement for collateral. Is there a published standard you could point to that shows the amount of collateral typically required by US courts for bails of this size?
    - bryan0 4y ago
      Parent is not saying to keep him in jail because he’s “extra guilty.” They’re saying keep him in jail because he can’t pay bail. Basically treat him like everyone else.
wmil 4y ago
The judge wanted to make headlines with a massive bail demand, but was willing to agree to a reasonable deal.

maxbond 4y ago

He has a constitutional right to it. He's presumed innocent in the eyes of the law.

rwmj 4y ago
There's no constitutional right - people accused of murder are not (often) released on bail. The 8th Amendment only applies to bail amounts when bail is granted. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excessive_Bail_Clause#Preventive_detention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excessive_Bail_Clause#Preventi...
- maxbond 4y ago
  He has a constitutional protection from cruel and unusual punishment. If there's no reason to believe he's dangerous to society, and he's presumed innocent, and we can use a bond to ensure he'll appear, then there's no reason to hold him.
  - loeg 4y ago
    > and we can use a bond to ensure he'll appear That is really the crux of the matter, and where people are (reasonably) disagreeing with you. Does a $4M bond (from his parents' assets, not his) and a $246M IOU really ensure SBF will show up in court rather than fleeing?
    - maxbond 4y ago
      What's the reasoning why it wouldn't, and why are we forgetting that he's also wearing an ankle monitor?
      - LgWoodenBadger 4y ago
        An ankle monitor doesn't do anything to prevent you from fleeing, since it can be removed with any number of readily available tools.
        maxbond 4y ago
        I'm sure it is possible to defeat an ankle monitor in some way, but I really doubt simply knocking it off will work (not to say you can't knock out off, but that this will be detected & interpreted as an escape attempt). The police aren't stupid. Reading about it a bit, it seems many of them are simple to remove (not sure what kind of monitor SBF is wearing), but that indeed, it will be detected immediately.
        defen 4y ago
        Assuming someone is paying attention: https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/12/9b5b1eff724150/he-was-accused-of-killing-a-po.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/12/9b5b1eff724150/... Having someone pay attention is also all that you need to prevent the world's most wanted man from hanging himself in a federal prison in Manhattan.
        loeg 4y ago
        I.e., scissors.
      - ffssffss 4y ago
        There are a lot of people building their understanding of this situation out of breathless headlines and misleading tweets. And I think there's an element of something like, "if he escapes, that means he really was a genius all along, and now I feel a little less bad for losing my money/believing in him".
  - ameister14 4y ago
    technically he has a protection from punishment, period, without due process of law.
  - TheDong 4y ago
    If staying in jail without bail were considered "cruel and unusual punishment", then it would be unconstitutional for anyone to be kept in jail. Cruel and unusual punishment does not apply here, and isn't really clearly defined regardless. I personally agree that not holding him is good fwiw. However, it also is horribly inconsistent. People who are guilty of driving while black, or non-violent drug offenses, or so on, are given much less generous treatment when it comes to unsecured bail, and when it comes to evaluating if they're a flight risk.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > People who are guilty of driving while black, or non-violent drug offenses, or so on, are given much less generous treatment when it comes to unsecured bail There's several factors at work here, but the most significant is that most offenders, especially most low-level offenders, are charged in state systems, and most (but not all, and this is changing, erratically) of the state systems rely much more heavily on financial conditions, and on secured bonds as the primary condition, in part due to very intense lobbying by the bail bonds industry to state governments (both directly and using astroturf groups to lobby the citizenry when their position is threatened.)
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  For anyone wanting more information on the 8th amendment. https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt8-2-2/ALDE_00000961/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt8-2-2/ALD... States also have their own amendments that can differ on bail as well.
temp2022account 4y ago
Agreed, I'd like to see SBF prosecuted as much as anyone else, but I want it to be a legal trial. His statements should be accepted in the most generous possible light, and the case against him should be ironclad enough to hold. (Otherwise there isn't much point to the justice system existing at large).
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  There isn't much point to the justice system if a rich dude can give them an iou for bond. Do you think if a poor person got 2500 bond they could give the court 4$ and and a im good for the rest of it?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
greenthrow 4y ago
That's not really an answer. Many people are held without bond. The answer is he's from a well off family so he has good lawyers.
- onenukecourse 4y ago
  People held without bond are in that situation for (presumably) extraordinary circumstances. Long history of violent behavior, huge flight risk. This is a punk (he is a prick) who wouldn't know how to wield a butter knife. He agreed not to have an extradition hearing in the Bahamas. He's hardly a danger to others or a flight risk.
itslennysfault 4y ago
No, he doesn't. If he was some random drug dealer that couldn't make bail he'd wait in jail for trial. The same rules should apply to him. Put up $25m (10%) or wait in jail. The bail amount was set at $250m because he is a substantial flight risk. Sitting in jail awaiting trial is not cruel or unusual. It's extremely common.
- maxbond 4y ago
  No, people who commit street level crimes should be given the same grace he's receiving. Denying bail because we think this guy is extra guilty (as opposed to, say, because he has a history of domestic abuse, and releasing him could put people at risk) would be cruel and unusual, because it would be discretionary.
  - fanso99 4y ago
    The comment you are replying to did not say that he should be denied bail. Only that the rules should apply to him too. 10% is the most common requirement, he didn't meet it.
    - nkurz 4y ago
      Where are you getting that "10% is the most common requirement"? I think you may be confusing the common _non-refundable_ amount charged by private bail bondsmen for much smaller bails with an actual court requirement for collateral. Is there a published standard you could point to that shows the amount of collateral typically required by US courts for bails of this size?
  - bryan0 4y ago
    Parent is not saying to keep him in jail because he’s “extra guilty.” They’re saying keep him in jail because he can’t pay bail. Basically treat him like everyone else.

wmil 4y ago

The judge wanted to make headlines with a massive bail demand, but was willing to agree to a reasonable deal.