7 ms·

I'm not a C engineer, but I think I have an interesting recommendation to consider. Since you are already familiar with other languages, you obviously don't ne

I'm not a C engineer, but I think I have an interesting recommendation to consider. Since you are already familiar with other languages, you obviously don't need to know the basics of C. The basics are the same everywhere. Instead, you'd likely want to build that mindset on how to build good software with C. I suggest you read other people's code and try to deep dive into the whys. I heard Redis is a well-written software. git clone https://github.com/redis/redis.git git log –reverse git checkout ed9b544e... We can now see the very first commit made by Salvatore Sanfilippo. From here, we can start exploring. By looking at the commit diffs and git log messages, you'll be able to understand the motivation behind the changes. When you read a book, the most interesting parts are usually after all the theory is explained at the beginning. Somewhere in the middle of the book they start showing you code samples and that's when things become really interesting. What I like about the reverse git-log approach is that it immediately throws you into the middle section of the book. This approach is both fun and eye opening. Good luck!

AccountAccount1 4y ago
Damn, what a great comment.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
brezelgoring 4y ago
I've got a single digit number of contributions to projects that I like, mostly because of how daunting it is to familiarize oneself with a codebase, and this 'git log -reverse' trick seems incredible as an entry point to a new project. That being said, how do you feel about using this technique for repos with 2k+ commits? It seems unrealistic to read all of them, or am I being short-sighted here? I get demotivated just thinking about it.
- sfpotter 4y ago
  Reading 2k+ commits is a big waste of time. Forcing yourself to read every commit to a project you "like" in order contribute to it is putting the cart before the horse. Just because you "like" a project doesn't mean you will have the skills to contribute usefully to it. This isn't a bad thing. I "like" GCC, but I don't have the skills to contribute to it. I'm not losing any sleep over this, and I'm definitely not thinking about reading every commit to GCC in chronological order. If you use a project, you might find a bug or some deficiency in it. Then it might happen that you have the skills to quickly fix this problem. Either that, or this bug causes you so many problems or slows you down so much that it becomes worth it for you to develop the skills to fix the problem.
  - brezelgoring 4y ago
    I like this approach to FOSS contributions, thanks for the answer, sfpotter.
- baby 4y ago
  I'm not sure why GP's post is upvoted so much, IMO it's a bad way to learn. I would instead find an entry point, a self-contained task that doesn't touch a lot of the codebase that you can use to learn something. Then, as you get more comfortable with some part of the codebase you can expand your scope by looking at tasks that touch other things. In general reading code is 50% of the work, the other 50% is to play with the codebase or try to make changes to it and see what happens.
  - brezelgoring 4y ago
    That sounds reasonable, and I do agree that inching forward seems like a more viable approach to contributing in FOSS. Thanks for the answer.
ozim 4y ago
Well I tried it and ed9b544e... is god awful, documentation has so many typos. God file 'redis.c' with 3k lines having even commented out code and some comments that I would not pass my code review. But I love it and it is great recommendation. Going to move with commits to see how it unfolds :)
asveikau 4y ago
For me, when I learned more than 20 years ago, reading source and manpages from Linux and other Unix like projects was a source of inspiration. I'd recommend OpenBSD libc. https://github.com/openbsd/src/tree/master/lib/libc https://github.com/openbsd/src/tree/master/lib/libc String functions especially are a good way to get into the C way of thinking. Since C's approach to strings is unique. I also learned a lot by reading manpages of libc functions or Unix utilities and thinking about how they were implemented, and writing my own little versions.
shortlived 4y ago
FYI, missing a second dash git log -–reverse
baby 4y ago
It's funny because I would never think that this is a good way to learn a codebase. Code changes completely through time, and early phases where nothing is set can be extremely messy and filled with constant refactorings. Commit messages are rarely good. I would rather try to learn a codebase looking at the latest state and the docs.
- trenchgun 4y ago
  > It's funny because I would never think that this is a good way to learn a codebase. It is NOT for learning the codebase. It is for learning how to program in C.
  - baby 4y ago
    Ah I see. I might try that with another language then! That makes more sense.
daniele_dll 4y ago
Fully agree with the principle but maybe let's not call Redis "well-written" :) Redis is a great piece of software because of how much it impacted the "evolution" of Internet not because of the code quality, Redis's code resemble spaghetti code, a lot. I will push myself and say that nowadays people would get fired for writing code like that! And before someone start to throw stones (just for the sake of it), here a few examples: - Redis source code is FULL of GIANT files with thousands and thousands of lines of code, decoupling and separation of concerns are basic things! A few examples -- https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/module.c https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/module.c -- https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/cluster.c https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/cluster.c -- https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/redis-cli.c https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/redis-cli.c -- https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/networking.c https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/networking.... - talking about auto generated, the repo contains commited auto generated code, a valid reason though really slips my mind (yes, of course I can think of a few, but ... really? :))) - https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/9c7c6924a019b902996fc4b608541f475daa649d/src/server.h#L1257 https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/9c7c6924a019b902996fc4b6... ... that struct feels like an "Italian minestrone", basically a kind of soup where you throw in, literally, all the vegetables you have around and it's great for a soup, a bit less for software engineering though :) - the naming structure is a bit random at times, there is a mix of camel case, camel case mixed with underscores from time to time, pascal case This kind of staff might be alright for a 0.3 or 0.4, maybe even for a 1.0, definitely not for a 7.x that has had 15 years to evolve :/ Even in cachegrand, that hasn't got to a v0.2 yet, I tried to avoid these kinda of dramas, in C is quick and easy to get there if you are not careful. There are plenty of other small things but most of the big dramas should be there.
- sfpotter 4y ago
  Here's one example of when to commit auto-generated code: if you use a tool like Cython and want to distribute sources to an end user, it is frequently recommended to distribute the C sources generated by Cython instead of the Cython code itself. The given reason is that the end user may not have access to Cython, but will likely have access to a C compiler. (This is frequently the case on scientific clusters where users don't have superuser privileges.)
pg314 4y ago
I did that with Git itself. As a bonus you’ll learn more about a tool you’re probably using everyday. If I remember correctly, even the early commits were pretty high quality.
stcroixx 4y ago
I think this is important just to get the idioms down that you otherwise only get on the job. Could pick almost any big active C project. I used to do this and I’d see some construct I didn’t understand and consult my K&R book to learn it. I’d do this in parallel with a book though for sure, K&R preferably. C is so basic that if you pursue it further it will be about learning the projects/companies way of using C.
_ank_it 4y ago
This. But for C++ and Python.

AccountAccount1 4y ago

Damn, what a great comment.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

brezelgoring 4y ago

I've got a single digit number of contributions to projects that I like, mostly because of how daunting it is to familiarize oneself with a codebase, and this 'git log -reverse' trick seems incredible as an entry point to a new project. That being said, how do you feel about using this technique for repos with 2k+ commits? It seems unrealistic to read all of them, or am I being short-sighted here? I get demotivated just thinking about it.

sfpotter 4y ago
Reading 2k+ commits is a big waste of time. Forcing yourself to read every commit to a project you "like" in order contribute to it is putting the cart before the horse. Just because you "like" a project doesn't mean you will have the skills to contribute usefully to it. This isn't a bad thing. I "like" GCC, but I don't have the skills to contribute to it. I'm not losing any sleep over this, and I'm definitely not thinking about reading every commit to GCC in chronological order. If you use a project, you might find a bug or some deficiency in it. Then it might happen that you have the skills to quickly fix this problem. Either that, or this bug causes you so many problems or slows you down so much that it becomes worth it for you to develop the skills to fix the problem.
- brezelgoring 4y ago
  I like this approach to FOSS contributions, thanks for the answer, sfpotter.
baby 4y ago
I'm not sure why GP's post is upvoted so much, IMO it's a bad way to learn. I would instead find an entry point, a self-contained task that doesn't touch a lot of the codebase that you can use to learn something. Then, as you get more comfortable with some part of the codebase you can expand your scope by looking at tasks that touch other things. In general reading code is 50% of the work, the other 50% is to play with the codebase or try to make changes to it and see what happens.
- brezelgoring 4y ago
  That sounds reasonable, and I do agree that inching forward seems like a more viable approach to contributing in FOSS. Thanks for the answer.

ozim 4y ago

Well I tried it and ed9b544e... is god awful, documentation has so many typos. God file 'redis.c' with 3k lines having even commented out code and some comments that I would not pass my code review. But I love it and it is great recommendation. Going to move with commits to see how it unfolds :)

asveikau 4y ago

For me, when I learned more than 20 years ago, reading source and manpages from Linux and other Unix like projects was a source of inspiration. I'd recommend OpenBSD libc. https://github.com/openbsd/src/tree/master/lib/libc https://github.com/openbsd/src/tree/master/lib/libc String functions especially are a good way to get into the C way of thinking. Since C's approach to strings is unique. I also learned a lot by reading manpages of libc functions or Unix utilities and thinking about how they were implemented, and writing my own little versions.

shortlived 4y ago

FYI, missing a second dash git log -–reverse

baby 4y ago

It's funny because I would never think that this is a good way to learn a codebase. Code changes completely through time, and early phases where nothing is set can be extremely messy and filled with constant refactorings. Commit messages are rarely good. I would rather try to learn a codebase looking at the latest state and the docs.

trenchgun 4y ago
> It's funny because I would never think that this is a good way to learn a codebase. It is NOT for learning the codebase. It is for learning how to program in C.
- baby 4y ago
  Ah I see. I might try that with another language then! That makes more sense.

daniele_dll 4y ago

Fully agree with the principle but maybe let's not call Redis "well-written" :) Redis is a great piece of software because of how much it impacted the "evolution" of Internet not because of the code quality, Redis's code resemble spaghetti code, a lot. I will push myself and say that nowadays people would get fired for writing code like that! And before someone start to throw stones (just for the sake of it), here a few examples: - Redis source code is FULL of GIANT files with thousands and thousands of lines of code, decoupling and separation of concerns are basic things! A few examples -- https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/module.c https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/module.c -- https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/cluster.c https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/cluster.c -- https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/redis-cli.c https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/redis-cli.c -- https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/networking.c https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/unstable/src/networking.... - talking about auto generated, the repo contains commited auto generated code, a valid reason though really slips my mind (yes, of course I can think of a few, but ... really? :))) - https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/9c7c6924a019b902996fc4b608541f475daa649d/src/server.h#L1257 https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/9c7c6924a019b902996fc4b6... ... that struct feels like an "Italian minestrone", basically a kind of soup where you throw in, literally, all the vegetables you have around and it's great for a soup, a bit less for software engineering though :) - the naming structure is a bit random at times, there is a mix of camel case, camel case mixed with underscores from time to time, pascal case This kind of staff might be alright for a 0.3 or 0.4, maybe even for a 1.0, definitely not for a 7.x that has had 15 years to evolve :/ Even in cachegrand, that hasn't got to a v0.2 yet, I tried to avoid these kinda of dramas, in C is quick and easy to get there if you are not careful. There are plenty of other small things but most of the big dramas should be there.

sfpotter 4y ago
Here's one example of when to commit auto-generated code: if you use a tool like Cython and want to distribute sources to an end user, it is frequently recommended to distribute the C sources generated by Cython instead of the Cython code itself. The given reason is that the end user may not have access to Cython, but will likely have access to a C compiler. (This is frequently the case on scientific clusters where users don't have superuser privileges.)

pg314 4y ago

I did that with Git itself. As a bonus you’ll learn more about a tool you’re probably using everyday. If I remember correctly, even the early commits were pretty high quality.

stcroixx 4y ago

I think this is important just to get the idioms down that you otherwise only get on the job. Could pick almost any big active C project. I used to do this and I’d see some construct I didn’t understand and consult my K&R book to learn it. I’d do this in parallel with a book though for sure, K&R preferably. C is so basic that if you pursue it further it will be about learning the projects/companies way of using C.

_ank_it 4y ago

This. But for C++ and Python.