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> You can, for example, manipulate people to pay for something. How? > You can get them addicted, so that they become repeat customers, despite rationality.

> You can, for example, manipulate people to pay for something. How? > You can get them addicted, so that they become repeat customers, despite rationality. No one purchases anything to become addicted. You may download a game, find it fun and purchase in-game items. It's useful because it's entertaining. > You can lie to a lot of people, so that you will have one time customers, but you can do that to a large crowd. But you have to convince people with your lie that it will be useful and beneficial for them to purchase it. Then once purchased they'll find it was a waste. > You can quasi-force people to buy something, if it's a prerequisite for something else. So it's useful to gain access to something else? No normal person willingly spends money that they know is a waste ahead of time. There's some imagined usefulness from it, either as short or long term entertainment, increased productivity, comfort, or for another specific purpose.

splatzone 4y ago
> How? This question is the foundation of the marketing industry. There are so many ways to manipulate people into parting with their money, but one of the basic approaches is to introduce and build tension in the customer that your product claims to release. This tension always exists on a deeper level than the practical value of the product. For example, if Apple want to sell a laptop, they don’t focus on selling the tech specs. Instead they promise the customer that if they buy a macbook, they’ll become a creative genius, a musician or a VFX artist - high status careers. So what they’re really selling is the promise of enhanced social standing, not technology. That’s as manipulative as it gets See also : https://garrisonmarketinggroup.com/tension-point-can-you-feel-the-tension/ https://garrisonmarketinggroup.com/tension-point-can-you-fee...
ajkjk 4y ago
> You can, for example, manipulate people to pay for something. > How? What's the point of pretending like you can't answer that question yourself? It doesn't make your position seem stronger; quite the opposite.
- adamckay 4y ago
  It's a genuine question. How can you manipulate someone into spending money on something where they don't perceive any value from its usefulness? Through blackmail or coercion? There's no reasonable explanation where someone can be manipulated into spending money that they think is entirely wasteful from the outset. The sibling comment on marketing, whilst somewhat manipulative, is still a useful purchase -- I want to be a musician so I buy a Macbook Pro to further my dream and use GarageBand. In that case I've been manipulated into buying something expensive for my end goal (however unlikely I'll be to achieve it) but I still perceive some use from it. Even if you consider spending money on purely charitable causes there's a usefulness in the warm fuzzy feelings the donator will get and the anticipated beneficial use of those funds to the needy.
  - ajkjk 4y ago
    You can't think of anything? People manipulate people to spend money every day, literally all the time. Sales, ads, product descriptions, promotions... some of these things turn out to be useful, and worth the money, some aren't, or are worth less than expected at least, and you usually don't find out until after the fact. It is like the single most common human activity, convincing people to buy things.
npteljes 4y ago
>Manipulate, how? Myriads of ways. For an example, consider a virtue signalling issue, greenwashing. Greenwashing is employing green marketing, without actually committing to green causes. By doing this, many choose the product, company or service to be more conscious of nature. But in the end, the promises are not kept, and the customer is already out of their money. So, manipulation for pay happened. >No one purchases anything to become addicted. Of course they don't, that's not what I meant, obviously. They get addicted in the meantime of consuming. I think a timely example is mobile games, as detailed in for example this article: https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/why-mobile-games-are-so-addicting-how-reclaim-your-time-ncna1031266 https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/why-mobile-games-ar... >Then once purchased they'll find it was a waste. Yes, but they are already out of money, and the recourse is not worth it, unavailable, or otherwise hindered. The result is that many don't return the product or react in any way - and that's how this business model works. >So it's useful to gain access to something else? If it needs to be made useful, it's not useful. It's like console exclusive games. It's not a natural thing, the software could probably be made to run in other environments easily, but they are artificially restricted, and they spin that as an advantage to the console. It's nonsense. >No normal person willingly spends money that they know is a waste ahead of time. Let's not muddy the argument with "normal person". First of all, these tactics are exactly targeted at the so-called normal people. Second, there's is nothing abnormal in belonging to any group of people that get taken advantage of, like young men getting roped into redpill, incel, PUA things. The dismissal of labeling these experiences as abnormal is part of what creates even more of this thing.

splatzone 4y ago

> How? This question is the foundation of the marketing industry. There are so many ways to manipulate people into parting with their money, but one of the basic approaches is to introduce and build tension in the customer that your product claims to release. This tension always exists on a deeper level than the practical value of the product. For example, if Apple want to sell a laptop, they don’t focus on selling the tech specs. Instead they promise the customer that if they buy a macbook, they’ll become a creative genius, a musician or a VFX artist - high status careers. So what they’re really selling is the promise of enhanced social standing, not technology. That’s as manipulative as it gets See also : https://garrisonmarketinggroup.com/tension-point-can-you-feel-the-tension/ https://garrisonmarketinggroup.com/tension-point-can-you-fee...

ajkjk 4y ago

> You can, for example, manipulate people to pay for something. > How? What's the point of pretending like you can't answer that question yourself? It doesn't make your position seem stronger; quite the opposite.

adamckay 4y ago
It's a genuine question. How can you manipulate someone into spending money on something where they don't perceive any value from its usefulness? Through blackmail or coercion? There's no reasonable explanation where someone can be manipulated into spending money that they think is entirely wasteful from the outset. The sibling comment on marketing, whilst somewhat manipulative, is still a useful purchase -- I want to be a musician so I buy a Macbook Pro to further my dream and use GarageBand. In that case I've been manipulated into buying something expensive for my end goal (however unlikely I'll be to achieve it) but I still perceive some use from it. Even if you consider spending money on purely charitable causes there's a usefulness in the warm fuzzy feelings the donator will get and the anticipated beneficial use of those funds to the needy.
- ajkjk 4y ago
  You can't think of anything? People manipulate people to spend money every day, literally all the time. Sales, ads, product descriptions, promotions... some of these things turn out to be useful, and worth the money, some aren't, or are worth less than expected at least, and you usually don't find out until after the fact. It is like the single most common human activity, convincing people to buy things.

npteljes 4y ago

>Manipulate, how? Myriads of ways. For an example, consider a virtue signalling issue, greenwashing. Greenwashing is employing green marketing, without actually committing to green causes. By doing this, many choose the product, company or service to be more conscious of nature. But in the end, the promises are not kept, and the customer is already out of their money. So, manipulation for pay happened. >No one purchases anything to become addicted. Of course they don't, that's not what I meant, obviously. They get addicted in the meantime of consuming. I think a timely example is mobile games, as detailed in for example this article: https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/why-mobile-games-are-so-addicting-how-reclaim-your-time-ncna1031266 https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/why-mobile-games-ar... >Then once purchased they'll find it was a waste. Yes, but they are already out of money, and the recourse is not worth it, unavailable, or otherwise hindered. The result is that many don't return the product or react in any way - and that's how this business model works. >So it's useful to gain access to something else? If it needs to be made useful, it's not useful. It's like console exclusive games. It's not a natural thing, the software could probably be made to run in other environments easily, but they are artificially restricted, and they spin that as an advantage to the console. It's nonsense. >No normal person willingly spends money that they know is a waste ahead of time. Let's not muddy the argument with "normal person". First of all, these tactics are exactly targeted at the so-called normal people. Second, there's is nothing abnormal in belonging to any group of people that get taken advantage of, like young men getting roped into redpill, incel, PUA things. The dismissal of labeling these experiences as abnormal is part of what creates even more of this thing.