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>so that consumers can easily remove and replace them themselves Completely idiotic and out of touch. Phones are glued shut for a reason. User replacable batte

>so that consumers can easily remove and replace them themselves Completely idiotic and out of touch. Phones are glued shut for a reason. User replacable batteries are not compatible with slim waterproof phones. My last phone lasted almost 5 years. It survived that long because water didn't kill it. Yes, I would have liked to just replace the battery at some point, but if I could have, it wouldn't have lasted as long. If you want people to use their phones for long you have to: - Not impede the manufacturers ability to create water/damage resistant phones. - Force manufacturers to sell spare parts which can be used to service the phones. - Mandate Updates for long periods. How is it okay for a phone to have 2 years of updates? At that point battery degrdaation isn't even that relevant.

SigmundA 4y ago
I agree, there are physical compromises that will have to be made for removable batteries. The phone will be bulkier or have a smaller battery and the overall design more complex even more so to achieve the same waterproofness. Meanwhile I have never replaced a battery in my iPhones, they have all lasted years, more recent ones with optimized charging seem like no noticeable degradation. This kind of law would be similarly idiotic in EV's now they can't use structural batteries to lower weight? Why isn't there a law mandating easily removable gas tanks in cars? There were plenty of phones with removable batteries for many years. They left the market because there is barely a market for them. Once you have multiple day battery life and batteries that last 5+ years with little degradation in slim fully waterproof designs nobody cares about swapping batteries easily, take it in to the shop if the fuel tank needs replacing or trade it in for a new one.
- pdpi 4y ago
  > Why isn't there a law mandating easily removable gas tanks in cars? Because the petrol tank won’t have shrunk to half its capacity in a few years’ time.
  - SigmundA 4y ago
    With a 500 full cycle to 80% capacity, that two years if you drained it 100% to 0% every day and the battery still has 80% of its original capacity. To get to 50% capacity should be 5 years, again only if you ran your battery down empty every single day for 5 years. So lets have a complicated waterproof quick release battery case adding weight and volume to the phone so that its easy to replace once every 5 years...
m4pjhby9yw 4y ago
I owned a Galaxy S5, which was slim, waterproof and had a trivially replacable battery
- NLPaep 4y ago
  It’s not really waterproof https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/23/samsung-agrees-to-pay-14m-penaltyover-misleading-galaxy-ads https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/23/samsung-a...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
thefounder 4y ago
I don't think Apple is trying to make the iPhones slimmer or lightweight-er. The weight and shape seems to be a feature now so that it can appeal to a certain audience. I believe the previous iphone design had less weight and was slimmer too. I'm sure waterproof/damage resistent phones can be made along with easy replaceable batteries. It's a policy issue not an engineering one. Worst case scenario they could provide you a "kit" to replace the battery(i.e a special screwdriver like they do for the SIM card) >> Force manufacturers to sell spare parts which can be used to service the phones. I think there is already an EU law for that that will come into effect soon. >> - Mandate Updates for long periods. How is it okay for a phone to have 2 years of updates? This should be the next step and I'm sure it will happen soon. Part of the solution to this is the incoming law that will force Apple to accept apps outside of its store and 3rd party appstores. That way app updates will no longer be restricted by Apple. Next should be a law to provide security OS updates for at least (i.e 10 years) or open (source) the OS for 3rd party updates. One thing is sure. There must be laws to stop the planned obsolescence. It went too far and is detrimental to both the consumer and the environment.
- constantcrying 4y ago
  >Worst case scenario they could provide you a "kit" to replace the battery(i.e a special screwdriver like they do for the SIM card) They are still glued. Replacement is possible, but requires skill, tools (heating, shim) and replacement seals. Definitely not "easy". >I don't think Apple is trying to make the iPhones slimmer or lightweight-er. If that were true there would be lots of space in the device. > It's a policy issue not an engineering one It is definitely an engineering issue. Removable backs are hard to do and hard to do right.
worldmerge 4y ago
My Kyocera is water proof and has a replaceable battery https://kyoceramobile.com/duraxv-extreme/ https://kyoceramobile.com/duraxv-extreme/
- constantcrying 4y ago
  It's also 2.7 cm thick...
  - worldmerge 4y ago
    well... it's a flip phone. It has multiple remappable buttons, usb c, headphone jack, nano sim, sd card. I imagine you could change the form factor a bit to reduce the size.
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      Despite I don't need a second feature phone (only smartphone because I need some apps) and I don't talk that much anyway (sometimes even 0 hours/month), but I still sometimes have the urge to buy a rugged flip, just for the sake of it, be it Moto Tundra or this one.
      - worldmerge 4y ago
        I really wish there were more smartphones with physical keyboards. I'd like to be able to use something with good battery life and a full qwerty keyboard. Realistically I don't need a lot of apps on a phone. I really need the authenticator apps though, and I'd like easy access to telegram/MMS/element. I like the intentionality you have when you type with a physical keyboard. Been focusing on UIs as of late and think we lose something when our interfaces are purely digital.

SigmundA 4y ago

I agree, there are physical compromises that will have to be made for removable batteries. The phone will be bulkier or have a smaller battery and the overall design more complex even more so to achieve the same waterproofness. Meanwhile I have never replaced a battery in my iPhones, they have all lasted years, more recent ones with optimized charging seem like no noticeable degradation. This kind of law would be similarly idiotic in EV's now they can't use structural batteries to lower weight? Why isn't there a law mandating easily removable gas tanks in cars? There were plenty of phones with removable batteries for many years. They left the market because there is barely a market for them. Once you have multiple day battery life and batteries that last 5+ years with little degradation in slim fully waterproof designs nobody cares about swapping batteries easily, take it in to the shop if the fuel tank needs replacing or trade it in for a new one.

pdpi 4y ago
> Why isn't there a law mandating easily removable gas tanks in cars? Because the petrol tank won’t have shrunk to half its capacity in a few years’ time.
- SigmundA 4y ago
  With a 500 full cycle to 80% capacity, that two years if you drained it 100% to 0% every day and the battery still has 80% of its original capacity. To get to 50% capacity should be 5 years, again only if you ran your battery down empty every single day for 5 years. So lets have a complicated waterproof quick release battery case adding weight and volume to the phone so that its easy to replace once every 5 years...

m4pjhby9yw 4y ago

I owned a Galaxy S5, which was slim, waterproof and had a trivially replacable battery

NLPaep 4y ago
It’s not really waterproof https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/23/samsung-agrees-to-pay-14m-penaltyover-misleading-galaxy-ads https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/23/samsung-a...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

thefounder 4y ago

I don't think Apple is trying to make the iPhones slimmer or lightweight-er. The weight and shape seems to be a feature now so that it can appeal to a certain audience. I believe the previous iphone design had less weight and was slimmer too. I'm sure waterproof/damage resistent phones can be made along with easy replaceable batteries. It's a policy issue not an engineering one. Worst case scenario they could provide you a "kit" to replace the battery(i.e a special screwdriver like they do for the SIM card) >> Force manufacturers to sell spare parts which can be used to service the phones. I think there is already an EU law for that that will come into effect soon. >> - Mandate Updates for long periods. How is it okay for a phone to have 2 years of updates? This should be the next step and I'm sure it will happen soon. Part of the solution to this is the incoming law that will force Apple to accept apps outside of its store and 3rd party appstores. That way app updates will no longer be restricted by Apple. Next should be a law to provide security OS updates for at least (i.e 10 years) or open (source) the OS for 3rd party updates. One thing is sure. There must be laws to stop the planned obsolescence. It went too far and is detrimental to both the consumer and the environment.

constantcrying 4y ago
>Worst case scenario they could provide you a "kit" to replace the battery(i.e a special screwdriver like they do for the SIM card) They are still glued. Replacement is possible, but requires skill, tools (heating, shim) and replacement seals. Definitely not "easy". >I don't think Apple is trying to make the iPhones slimmer or lightweight-er. If that were true there would be lots of space in the device. > It's a policy issue not an engineering one It is definitely an engineering issue. Removable backs are hard to do and hard to do right.

worldmerge 4y ago

My Kyocera is water proof and has a replaceable battery https://kyoceramobile.com/duraxv-extreme/ https://kyoceramobile.com/duraxv-extreme/

constantcrying 4y ago
It's also 2.7 cm thick...
- worldmerge 4y ago
  well... it's a flip phone. It has multiple remappable buttons, usb c, headphone jack, nano sim, sd card. I imagine you could change the form factor a bit to reduce the size.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    Despite I don't need a second feature phone (only smartphone because I need some apps) and I don't talk that much anyway (sometimes even 0 hours/month), but I still sometimes have the urge to buy a rugged flip, just for the sake of it, be it Moto Tundra or this one.
    - worldmerge 4y ago
      I really wish there were more smartphones with physical keyboards. I'd like to be able to use something with good battery life and a full qwerty keyboard. Realistically I don't need a lot of apps on a phone. I really need the authenticator apps though, and I'd like easy access to telegram/MMS/element. I like the intentionality you have when you type with a physical keyboard. Been focusing on UIs as of late and think we lose something when our interfaces are purely digital.