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Even simpler, but less likely to be popular. Pay teachers competitive (six figure) salaries, put a cap on student:teacher ratio (20:1, or even less?), and get r

Even simpler, but less likely to be popular. Pay teachers competitive (six figure) salaries, put a cap on student:teacher ratio (20:1, or even less?), and get rid of tenure.

erosenbe0 4y ago
Uhh,teachers in major cities make 100k with 10-15 years experience on 180 contract days per year, and also get pension. Student:teacher ratio is below 20 in all major cities.
- cauthon 4y ago
  Not sure how you’re defining major cities, but starting salaries in the top 5 CoL cities are definitely not near $100k Boston $60k https://btu.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Salary-Grids.pdf https://btu.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Salary-Grids.pdf Seattle $65k https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Certificated-Non-Supervisory-2021-22.pdf https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Ce... LA $55k https://achieve.lausd.net/cms/lib/CA01000043/Centricity/domain/280/salary%20tables/T_Table_Annual.pdf https://achieve.lausd.net/cms/lib/CA01000043/Centricity/doma... SF $60k https://uesf.org/members/2017-2020-contract/ https://uesf.org/members/2017-2020-contract/ NYC $60k https://cdn-blob-prd.azureedge.net/prd-pws/docs/default-source/default-document-library/salary-schedules/may-14-2021-salary-schedule-teachers.pdf?sfvrsn=5dc5670_5 https://cdn-blob-prd.azureedge.net/prd-pws/docs/default-sour... Looks like you can add $10-20k with a masters and a few grand per year of tenure. Key word in my comment was “competitive”, which these aren’t for trained/skilled workers with other options.
  - erosenbe0 4y ago
    In the most expensive locations I would agree that it is not very competitive, and the same goes for entry-level police and other needed services. (Though nimbys reap what they sow here.) The entire education system is inefficient and anachronistic. School should run all year, simply emphasizing more sports and nature in the summer. Then you don't need to fit the career and compensation structure of the personnel into seven contract hours a day working 180 days a year. You can pay a true salary, end regression and lower criminality in the summer, while also helping working parents be more productive. Don't get me started though! College is even dumber. 36 weeks of class per year for 18 year-olds? Wtf. Kids graduate high school and ought to be in class or an apprenticeship the next Monday. Most young adults go to non-selective universities to get simple credentials like nursing or education. It's not about fancy internships at Google or other nonsense like gap years. That's relatively decadent stuff most young adults can't indulge in.
8bitsrule 4y ago
Both suggestions are very right-on. I would add: get rid of school boards. They are political dinosaurs who 'know nothing ... nothiiing'. Cut administration to essential (non-educational) needs A superintendant's income could be far more effectively invested in better teaching materials. A couple of good people tuned fulltime to student ecology and parent relations. Education: Every school has dozens of well-educated and committed teachers; together they can focus on improving quality and streamlining away the BS.
missedthecue 4y ago
Do higher teacher salaries correlate to student outcomes? Not to even mention causation. Private school teachers earn less than public school teachers, but private school students get much better educational outcomes.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Bad or mediocre private schools—which are the vast majority—pay less than public schools. Good ones may pay more. Teaching in private schools also tends to be an easier job, mainly thanks to selection bias giving you an easier set of students to teach, and (oddly enough) school admin being both willing and able to tell parents to fuck off and go away if they or their children are being jackasses and won't shape up. Public schools can't do that. Turns out decent-or-better private schools would rather lose one paying student than let them make things worse for the rest, risking several paying students (and the good ones all have waiting lists anyway—they'll fill the slot, no problem).

Even simpler, but less likely to be popular. Pay teachers competitive (six figure) salaries, put a cap on student:teacher ratio (20:1, or even less?), and get rid of tenure.

erosenbe0 4y ago

Uhh,teachers in major cities make 100k with 10-15 years experience on 180 contract days per year, and also get pension. Student:teacher ratio is below 20 in all major cities.

cauthon 4y ago
Not sure how you’re defining major cities, but starting salaries in the top 5 CoL cities are definitely not near $100k Boston $60k https://btu.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Salary-Grids.pdf https://btu.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Salary-Grids.pdf Seattle $65k https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Certificated-Non-Supervisory-2021-22.pdf https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Ce... LA $55k https://achieve.lausd.net/cms/lib/CA01000043/Centricity/domain/280/salary%20tables/T_Table_Annual.pdf https://achieve.lausd.net/cms/lib/CA01000043/Centricity/doma... SF $60k https://uesf.org/members/2017-2020-contract/ https://uesf.org/members/2017-2020-contract/ NYC $60k https://cdn-blob-prd.azureedge.net/prd-pws/docs/default-source/default-document-library/salary-schedules/may-14-2021-salary-schedule-teachers.pdf?sfvrsn=5dc5670_5 https://cdn-blob-prd.azureedge.net/prd-pws/docs/default-sour... Looks like you can add $10-20k with a masters and a few grand per year of tenure. Key word in my comment was “competitive”, which these aren’t for trained/skilled workers with other options.
- erosenbe0 4y ago
  In the most expensive locations I would agree that it is not very competitive, and the same goes for entry-level police and other needed services. (Though nimbys reap what they sow here.) The entire education system is inefficient and anachronistic. School should run all year, simply emphasizing more sports and nature in the summer. Then you don't need to fit the career and compensation structure of the personnel into seven contract hours a day working 180 days a year. You can pay a true salary, end regression and lower criminality in the summer, while also helping working parents be more productive. Don't get me started though! College is even dumber. 36 weeks of class per year for 18 year-olds? Wtf. Kids graduate high school and ought to be in class or an apprenticeship the next Monday. Most young adults go to non-selective universities to get simple credentials like nursing or education. It's not about fancy internships at Google or other nonsense like gap years. That's relatively decadent stuff most young adults can't indulge in.

8bitsrule 4y ago

Both suggestions are very right-on. I would add: get rid of school boards. They are political dinosaurs who 'know nothing ... nothiiing'. Cut administration to essential (non-educational) needs A superintendant's income could be far more effectively invested in better teaching materials. A couple of good people tuned fulltime to student ecology and parent relations. Education: Every school has dozens of well-educated and committed teachers; together they can focus on improving quality and streamlining away the BS.

missedthecue 4y ago

Do higher teacher salaries correlate to student outcomes? Not to even mention causation. Private school teachers earn less than public school teachers, but private school students get much better educational outcomes.

yamtaddle 4y ago
Bad or mediocre private schools—which are the vast majority—pay less than public schools. Good ones may pay more. Teaching in private schools also tends to be an easier job, mainly thanks to selection bias giving you an easier set of students to teach, and (oddly enough) school admin being both willing and able to tell parents to fuck off and go away if they or their children are being jackasses and won't shape up. Public schools can't do that. Turns out decent-or-better private schools would rather lose one paying student than let them make things worse for the rest, risking several paying students (and the good ones all have waiting lists anyway—they'll fill the slot, no problem).