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> It is actually insane that we let China do whatever they want here while US companies are effectively prevented from gaining a foothold in China. I wish peop

by snehk 4y ago

> It is actually insane that we let China do whatever they want here while US companies are effectively prevented from gaining a foothold in China. I wish people, at least of this site, would stop with this argument. US and European companies in China simply have to follow the same rules Chinese companies have to. It's admirable that they then go ahead and just don't do business there but they're not being prevented from operating there under the same rules as any Chinese company. A German car company cannot sell cars in the US without backup cameras even though that's completely fine in Germany. If someone from Iran wants to do business in the US, it's not legal to discriminate based on religion even though that might be fine in Iran. Maybe it's time to overhaul the laws altogether. Just make the data collection itself illegal for everyone and be done with it. Then companies from all around the globe can decide whether they want to operate in a market or not and completely banning companies that openly don't follow the law is not really controversial. If the ban happens because they're collecting data and the collection itself is illegal, I'm all for it. Banning companies on the basis that they're doing the exact same thing as everyone else simply because they're from another nation is problematic.

robswc 4y ago
> simply have to follow the same rules Chinese companies have to I don’t think it’s simple at all. That might be how it works on paper but I’ll ask you this. Do you think a US or European equivalent would ever be allowed to gain a comparable market share? Or would they find many convenient barriers while a Chinese clone, backed by the government, was being built? I just don’t see a world where Chinese and US companies are on equal footing in the eyes of the CCP as long as they just “simply follow the rules.”
- snehk 4y ago
  I think you're talking about two different things here. I never argued that they are on the same footing. That's true for every country on this planet. My main point here was that Facebook and Google are allowed to operate in China if they follow the law of the land. I've already said that not operating there is arguably admirable but the point is that they're definitely allowed to operate there if they follow the law of the land. And the laws for them are no different than they are for Chinese companies. Apple and Microsoft are doing absolutely fine in China. Apple's mobile market share there is bigger than it is in Europe. So yes, they already _are_ allowed to gain a comparable market share. As for regular social media; LinkedIn is also doing just fine and always has. Teslas were the #1 electric cars sold for the last time frame I could find. There are various areas where foreign companies are big or even dominate the Chinese market.
  - robswc 4y ago
    >I never argued that they are on the same footing Sure. Though, the footing is so unequal that it effectively prevents US companies from gaining a foothold. Maybe that is a little broad but it certainly leans towards the rule vs the exception. >And the laws for them are no different than they are for Chinese companies. Before or after they start operating? How difficult is that compared to entering the US or European market? >Apple and Microsoft are doing absolutely fine in China. Apple's mobile market share there is bigger than it is in Europe. So yes, they already _are_ allowed to gain a comparable market share. The Government of China is literally trying to stop Apple and Microsoft's dominance as we speak. https://www.kylinos.cn/ https://www.kylinos.cn/ >As for regular social media; LinkedIn is also doing just fine and always has. LinkedIn is doing fine? They shut down LinkedIn literally last year man, lol. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/14/technology/linkedin-china-microsoft.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/14/technology/linkedin-china... They're making some BS "CCP compliant" version that _only_ allows you to do job searching but it is certainly not LinkedIn as we know it. Sure. On paper, once you jump through the regulatory hoops you're allowed to exist there... but the difference between the environments (and the bias foreign companies endure) is such that I stand by my original comment.

by snehk 4y ago

robswc 4y ago

> simply have to follow the same rules Chinese companies have to I don’t think it’s simple at all. That might be how it works on paper but I’ll ask you this. Do you think a US or European equivalent would ever be allowed to gain a comparable market share? Or would they find many convenient barriers while a Chinese clone, backed by the government, was being built? I just don’t see a world where Chinese and US companies are on equal footing in the eyes of the CCP as long as they just “simply follow the rules.”

snehk 4y ago
I think you're talking about two different things here. I never argued that they are on the same footing. That's true for every country on this planet. My main point here was that Facebook and Google are allowed to operate in China if they follow the law of the land. I've already said that not operating there is arguably admirable but the point is that they're definitely allowed to operate there if they follow the law of the land. And the laws for them are no different than they are for Chinese companies. Apple and Microsoft are doing absolutely fine in China. Apple's mobile market share there is bigger than it is in Europe. So yes, they already _are_ allowed to gain a comparable market share. As for regular social media; LinkedIn is also doing just fine and always has. Teslas were the #1 electric cars sold for the last time frame I could find. There are various areas where foreign companies are big or even dominate the Chinese market.
- robswc 4y ago
  >I never argued that they are on the same footing Sure. Though, the footing is so unequal that it effectively prevents US companies from gaining a foothold. Maybe that is a little broad but it certainly leans towards the rule vs the exception. >And the laws for them are no different than they are for Chinese companies. Before or after they start operating? How difficult is that compared to entering the US or European market? >Apple and Microsoft are doing absolutely fine in China. Apple's mobile market share there is bigger than it is in Europe. So yes, they already _are_ allowed to gain a comparable market share. The Government of China is literally trying to stop Apple and Microsoft's dominance as we speak. https://www.kylinos.cn/ https://www.kylinos.cn/ >As for regular social media; LinkedIn is also doing just fine and always has. LinkedIn is doing fine? They shut down LinkedIn literally last year man, lol. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/14/technology/linkedin-china-microsoft.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/14/technology/linkedin-china... They're making some BS "CCP compliant" version that _only_ allows you to do job searching but it is certainly not LinkedIn as we know it. Sure. On paper, once you jump through the regulatory hoops you're allowed to exist there... but the difference between the environments (and the bias foreign companies endure) is such that I stand by my original comment.