5 ms·

The entire British government has no merit? Really?

grandalf 15y ago
One could make the same argument about the Church of Scientology. The knighthood is via the figurehead, monarchic part of the government which serves no actual purpose.
- tptacek 15y ago
  I'm guessing two things from this comment. (1) You are a computer programmer. (2) You are not British. Am I right about either of them? I hope so. I upvoted you in sympathy. :)
  - grandalf 15y ago
    You are correct. I have nothing against the British government or the Church of Scientology, but I do think titles of nobility are bizarre and a reminder of our civilization's dark past.
    - sliverstorm 15y ago
      Do they really differ from the titles we use in the USA? "Senator" Bush. "Mr. President" (every president past and present) "Sir" is no more a title of nobility (today) than any of those.
      - grandalf 15y ago
        You would have to be the biggest cynic in the world about democracy to think there is no difference between an elected senator and a monarchic (hereditary) title of nobility.
        ErrantX 15y ago
        FWIW KBE's are not hereditary titles :-) he can't pass it on. Here in the UK it is nowadays largely recognised as part of a larger (including OBE and MBE etc.) merit system recognising achievement. A national honour roll. Now if we were talking about hereditary lordships...
        megablast 15y ago
        It is almost as if you are trying not to understand, and just want to lash out at this, no matter what. Yes, it is a title, nothing more, nothing huge, almost completely meaningless.
        grandalf 15y ago
        That's my point, it' meaningless. That modern humans think it's a big deal is the scary part.
        sliverstorm 15y ago
        Yet you are the one sounding the war drums.
        grandalf 15y ago
        Just trying to correct for the very common pro government bias.
        stevecooperorg 15y ago
        I think there's been a historical shift in what the word 'Knighthood' means. The knighthoods discussed here are earned and given for different public goods -- charity, business, entertainment, etc. Current Knights include Sir Elton John, Sir Paul McCartney, and Sir Richard Branson. It's not heritable or noble, although of course the origins of the word itself are. (Interestingly, 'Senator' has undergone the same historical shift -- it refers originally to the hereditary nobles who ran the Roman Empire. It's just managed to get away from the aristocratic origins. As have terms like 'Drugs Czar') It is the case that it's the Queen who awards these titles, but in the UK almost everything does, officially -- she's a symbolic figurehead -- the powerless root node of the tree of government, if you like. Does the US have any kind of equivalent system of recognition? France has the Légion d'Honneur, for instance, which is a non-aristocratic, republican order of merit.
    - blurbytree 15y ago
      They are a fantastic way to honor people who have made a large contribution to society.

One could make the same argument about the Church of Scientology. The knighthood is via the figurehead, monarchic part of the government which serves no actual purpose.

tptacek 15y ago
I'm guessing two things from this comment. (1) You are a computer programmer. (2) You are not British. Am I right about either of them? I hope so. I upvoted you in sympathy. :)
- grandalf 15y ago
  You are correct. I have nothing against the British government or the Church of Scientology, but I do think titles of nobility are bizarre and a reminder of our civilization's dark past.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    Do they really differ from the titles we use in the USA? "Senator" Bush. "Mr. President" (every president past and present) "Sir" is no more a title of nobility (today) than any of those.
    - grandalf 15y ago
      You would have to be the biggest cynic in the world about democracy to think there is no difference between an elected senator and a monarchic (hereditary) title of nobility.
      - ErrantX 15y ago
        FWIW KBE's are not hereditary titles :-) he can't pass it on. Here in the UK it is nowadays largely recognised as part of a larger (including OBE and MBE etc.) merit system recognising achievement. A national honour roll. Now if we were talking about hereditary lordships...
      - megablast 15y ago
        It is almost as if you are trying not to understand, and just want to lash out at this, no matter what. Yes, it is a title, nothing more, nothing huge, almost completely meaningless.
        grandalf 15y ago
        That's my point, it' meaningless. That modern humans think it's a big deal is the scary part.
        sliverstorm 15y ago
        Yet you are the one sounding the war drums.
        grandalf 15y ago
        Just trying to correct for the very common pro government bias.
      - stevecooperorg 15y ago
        I think there's been a historical shift in what the word 'Knighthood' means. The knighthoods discussed here are earned and given for different public goods -- charity, business, entertainment, etc. Current Knights include Sir Elton John, Sir Paul McCartney, and Sir Richard Branson. It's not heritable or noble, although of course the origins of the word itself are. (Interestingly, 'Senator' has undergone the same historical shift -- it refers originally to the hereditary nobles who ran the Roman Empire. It's just managed to get away from the aristocratic origins. As have terms like 'Drugs Czar') It is the case that it's the Queen who awards these titles, but in the UK almost everything does, officially -- she's a symbolic figurehead -- the powerless root node of the tree of government, if you like. Does the US have any kind of equivalent system of recognition? France has the Légion d'Honneur, for instance, which is a non-aristocratic, republican order of merit.
  - blurbytree 15y ago
    They are a fantastic way to honor people who have made a large contribution to society.