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his parents' house is $4m, SBF maintains all his crypto wealth is gone and he is indeed required by the court to stay in his parents' house (though we can't be

his parents' house is $4m, SBF maintains all his crypto wealth is gone and he is indeed required by the court to stay in his parents' house (though we can't be certain as to which room).

strangattractor 4y ago
Who came up with the $25 million for bail? BTW an Eichler in Palo Alto cost $4 million.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Who came up with the $25 million for bail? No one, because there was no $25 million used for bail.
  - strangattractor 4y ago
    I don't think that is how it works. The judge sets bail at $250 million. Someone has to guaranty that $250 million will be paid if SBF skips town. The person guarantying the $250 million has to prove to the judge they have $250 million to pay in the event SBF skips. If a bail bondsman is used SBF would have to pay the bail bondsman $25 million to give that guaranty to the court. So somebody somewhere has to have access to $250 million dollars. Either SBF, bail bondsman, parents or some really nice dude off the street that has a spare $250 mill stuck in his desk. "He was released on bail for a $250 million bond"
    - strangattractor 4y ago
      So his parents have a $250 million dollar home I guess. Or I am still confused. If they used their home then it must be worth $250 million. Or they borrowed $25 mil against it and got a bondsman. Somebody has to guaranty $250 mil to the court and it has to really exist or he would be sitting in jail.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > So his parents have a $250 million dollar home I guess No. > Or I am still confused. Yes, absolutely. > If they used their home then it must be worth $250 million. No. > Or they borrowed $25 mil against it and got a bondsman. Also, no. > Somebody has to guaranty $250 mil to the court and it has to really exist or he would be sitting in jail. Again, no.
        strangattractor 4y ago
        What is your source of information?
        dragonwriter 4y ago
        > What is your source of information? Mainly, the actual bond document approved by the court, which details the actual conditions approved in this case, and the federal law on bail, 18 USC § 3142, which sets the rules for what federal courts can approve. What's yours?
        strangattractor 4y ago
        I posted it above - with links.
        davidgerard 4y ago
        you posted state laws, not federal law. Here's Popehat's explainer: https://www.serioustrouble.show/p/how-did-sam-bankman-fried-get-bail https://www.serioustrouble.show/p/how-did-sam-bankman-fried-...
        strangattractor 4y ago
        Thanks - that was actually useful.
      - strangattractor 4y ago
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > I don't think that is how it works. Well, simply put, you are wrong. > Someone has to guaranty that $250 million will be paid if SBF skips town Yes, they do. Technically, the court could accept that guaranty from SBF himself, alone, and with no property given in security. It has, however, not chosen to be that trusting. > The person guarantying the $250 million has to prove to the judge they have $250 million to pay in the event SBF skips No, they don't. Federal law permits unsecured bond, fully secured bond, and anything in between, optionally in combination with nonfinancial conditions, so long as the court is satisfied that is sufficient to adequately insure appearance. In this case their is a bail amount, partially secured, multiple sureties (who probably don't have sufficient assets to cover the $250M, but that's not actually the point), and a raft of nonfinancial conditions, and the court is satisfied (the fact that prosecutors also approved the terms probably helps there.) > If a bail bondsman is used SBF would have to pay the bail bondsman $25 million to give that guaranty to the court. Probably not in New York, given that while 10% is the maximum premium for small bail amounts in New York, it asymptotically approaches 6% for large bail amounts. But, in any case, a bondsman has not been used, so this is irrelevant.
      - strangattractor 4y ago
        Thanks for explaining. So if he skips they ruin his parents for whatever they can get up to $250 mil.
      - strangattractor 4y ago
        I guess he did have a little more than $250 million available to him. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/05/investing/doj-seizes-robinhood-shares/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/05/investing/doj-seizes-robinhoo...

his parents' house is $4m, SBF maintains all his crypto wealth is gone and he is indeed required by the court to stay in his parents' house (though we can't be certain as to which room).

strangattractor 4y ago

Who came up with the $25 million for bail? BTW an Eichler in Palo Alto cost $4 million.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Who came up with the $25 million for bail? No one, because there was no $25 million used for bail.
- strangattractor 4y ago
  I don't think that is how it works. The judge sets bail at $250 million. Someone has to guaranty that $250 million will be paid if SBF skips town. The person guarantying the $250 million has to prove to the judge they have $250 million to pay in the event SBF skips. If a bail bondsman is used SBF would have to pay the bail bondsman $25 million to give that guaranty to the court. So somebody somewhere has to have access to $250 million dollars. Either SBF, bail bondsman, parents or some really nice dude off the street that has a spare $250 mill stuck in his desk. "He was released on bail for a $250 million bond"
  - strangattractor 4y ago
    So his parents have a $250 million dollar home I guess. Or I am still confused. If they used their home then it must be worth $250 million. Or they borrowed $25 mil against it and got a bondsman. Somebody has to guaranty $250 mil to the court and it has to really exist or he would be sitting in jail.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > So his parents have a $250 million dollar home I guess No. > Or I am still confused. Yes, absolutely. > If they used their home then it must be worth $250 million. No. > Or they borrowed $25 mil against it and got a bondsman. Also, no. > Somebody has to guaranty $250 mil to the court and it has to really exist or he would be sitting in jail. Again, no.
      - strangattractor 4y ago
        What is your source of information?
        dragonwriter 4y ago
        > What is your source of information? Mainly, the actual bond document approved by the court, which details the actual conditions approved in this case, and the federal law on bail, 18 USC § 3142, which sets the rules for what federal courts can approve. What's yours?
        strangattractor 4y ago
        I posted it above - with links.
        davidgerard 4y ago
        you posted state laws, not federal law. Here's Popehat's explainer: https://www.serioustrouble.show/p/how-did-sam-bankman-fried-get-bail https://www.serioustrouble.show/p/how-did-sam-bankman-fried-...
        strangattractor 4y ago
        Thanks - that was actually useful.
    - strangattractor 4y ago
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > I don't think that is how it works. Well, simply put, you are wrong. > Someone has to guaranty that $250 million will be paid if SBF skips town Yes, they do. Technically, the court could accept that guaranty from SBF himself, alone, and with no property given in security. It has, however, not chosen to be that trusting. > The person guarantying the $250 million has to prove to the judge they have $250 million to pay in the event SBF skips No, they don't. Federal law permits unsecured bond, fully secured bond, and anything in between, optionally in combination with nonfinancial conditions, so long as the court is satisfied that is sufficient to adequately insure appearance. In this case their is a bail amount, partially secured, multiple sureties (who probably don't have sufficient assets to cover the $250M, but that's not actually the point), and a raft of nonfinancial conditions, and the court is satisfied (the fact that prosecutors also approved the terms probably helps there.) > If a bail bondsman is used SBF would have to pay the bail bondsman $25 million to give that guaranty to the court. Probably not in New York, given that while 10% is the maximum premium for small bail amounts in New York, it asymptotically approaches 6% for large bail amounts. But, in any case, a bondsman has not been used, so this is irrelevant.
    - strangattractor 4y ago
      Thanks for explaining. So if he skips they ruin his parents for whatever they can get up to $250 mil.
    - strangattractor 4y ago
      I guess he did have a little more than $250 million available to him. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/05/investing/doj-seizes-robinhood-shares/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/05/investing/doj-seizes-robinhoo...