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> everyone in the development & support team uses Mac (except this one guy who insisted in Linux), > certainly a pain to just keep it updated. > Linux and it'

> everyone in the development & support team uses Mac (except this one guy who insisted in Linux), > certainly a pain to just keep it updated. > Linux and it's a lot of pain to setup. If you're not using Linux, how are you justifying these claims? > certainly a pain to just keep it updated. Excluding the boot time for both, MacOS takes between 15 and 45min to update. Linux is a few seconds. I suspect that the only OS that has a more ridiculous update process than MacOS is Gentoo.

KyeRussell 4y ago
One can be using something that isn’t Linux for development and still be familiar with it. Perhaps they did in the past? Perhaps working in the same team as someone exposes them to the alleged headaches? This is a thread on Hacker News, not an academic article. You aren’t owed a massive amount of “justification” for these “claims”.
- zamalek 4y ago
  > You aren’t owed a massive amount of “justification” for these “claims”. I was using Mac for development due to company policy (compliance). It is by far the worst development experience I have ever had. Brew is terrible. Updates are agonizing. The user interface is awful. Containers are a shitshow.
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    Yeah, I used a Mac for years and felt the same way. Linux has been the only half-reasonable OS for development for me.
maria2 4y ago
How do I get my laptop to properly sleep when using Linux?
- paulv 4y ago
  I'm not sure I understand the question? I close the lid. How do you do it?
  - zamalek 4y ago
    It a jab at Linux/PC. Apple's completely vertical stack means that their machines never have issues sleeping. The huge variety of machines that Linux (and Windows) is expected to run on can cause problems entering S-states reliably. This issue is pretty uncommon (excluding the Windows modern sleep disaster), but that doesn't prevent comments like the GP throwaway.
    - howinteresting 4y ago
      Apple laptops definitely have issues sleeping. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-m1-doesnt-sleep-when-display-is-closed.2307410/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-m1-doesnt-s... There's a litany of bugs in Apple's software. This often gets hidden because developers use workarounds of various sorts, but if you know, you know. It's honestly embarrassing how buggy Apple software is given the vertical integration you describe. The worst part is that almost all of it is closed source so it's harder to debug, and the bits that are open source (and have bugs in plain sight) you can't just submit a patch to. You have to file an rdar and hope it gets prioritized, which for one of the bugs I'm aware of hasn't been in many years. And so the workarounds keep getting written.
      - josephg 4y ago
        > There's a litany of bugs in Apple's software. Personally, the only problems I've only ever had getting macos to sleep properly has been when I've been running VMs. (Hello docker!) When doing purely OS-local development (which is all I ever do these days, because I value my sanity) macos works great. (So long as you have a recent mac. New macos + old laptop is awful.) But as nice as macos is, XCode is an absolute mess. Earlier today I was trying to import a swift package into xcode. The package looked fine, but XCode for some reason was only importing it as a "Folder Reference". Stackoverflow suggested quitting xcode and running "xcodebuild -resolvePackageDependencies", then relaunching xcode. And that fixed it! Why was that necessary? Why couldn't xcode figure that out on its own? What did that even do?? I have no idea. And I hate it. These days developing in apple's ecosystem feels less like developing in a walled garden and more like developing in a swamp. They're truly lovely developer machines - just so long as you can stay away from xcode.
mat_epice 4y ago
My read on it was that this person heard what their coworker has to go through, and has formed an opinion based on that. I understand that climbing Mt. Everest is fairly difficult, despite not having done it myself.
- zamalek 4y ago
  I find how specific coworker complains about Linux while simultaneously demanding to use it pretty contradictory. That's why I am interested in more details.
  - andirk 4y ago
    I think it's fair to say that everyone in a company using very similar hardware and software makes maintenance much easier. But I also think any dev should be supported in at least _some_ Linux environment.

KyeRussell 4y ago

One can be using something that isn’t Linux for development and still be familiar with it. Perhaps they did in the past? Perhaps working in the same team as someone exposes them to the alleged headaches? This is a thread on Hacker News, not an academic article. You aren’t owed a massive amount of “justification” for these “claims”.

zamalek 4y ago
> You aren’t owed a massive amount of “justification” for these “claims”. I was using Mac for development due to company policy (compliance). It is by far the worst development experience I have ever had. Brew is terrible. Updates are agonizing. The user interface is awful. Containers are a shitshow.
- howinteresting 4y ago
  Yeah, I used a Mac for years and felt the same way. Linux has been the only half-reasonable OS for development for me.

maria2 4y ago

How do I get my laptop to properly sleep when using Linux?

paulv 4y ago
I'm not sure I understand the question? I close the lid. How do you do it?
- zamalek 4y ago
  It a jab at Linux/PC. Apple's completely vertical stack means that their machines never have issues sleeping. The huge variety of machines that Linux (and Windows) is expected to run on can cause problems entering S-states reliably. This issue is pretty uncommon (excluding the Windows modern sleep disaster), but that doesn't prevent comments like the GP throwaway.
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    Apple laptops definitely have issues sleeping. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-m1-doesnt-sleep-when-display-is-closed.2307410/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-m1-doesnt-s... There's a litany of bugs in Apple's software. This often gets hidden because developers use workarounds of various sorts, but if you know, you know. It's honestly embarrassing how buggy Apple software is given the vertical integration you describe. The worst part is that almost all of it is closed source so it's harder to debug, and the bits that are open source (and have bugs in plain sight) you can't just submit a patch to. You have to file an rdar and hope it gets prioritized, which for one of the bugs I'm aware of hasn't been in many years. And so the workarounds keep getting written.
    - josephg 4y ago
      > There's a litany of bugs in Apple's software. Personally, the only problems I've only ever had getting macos to sleep properly has been when I've been running VMs. (Hello docker!) When doing purely OS-local development (which is all I ever do these days, because I value my sanity) macos works great. (So long as you have a recent mac. New macos + old laptop is awful.) But as nice as macos is, XCode is an absolute mess. Earlier today I was trying to import a swift package into xcode. The package looked fine, but XCode for some reason was only importing it as a "Folder Reference". Stackoverflow suggested quitting xcode and running "xcodebuild -resolvePackageDependencies", then relaunching xcode. And that fixed it! Why was that necessary? Why couldn't xcode figure that out on its own? What did that even do?? I have no idea. And I hate it. These days developing in apple's ecosystem feels less like developing in a walled garden and more like developing in a swamp. They're truly lovely developer machines - just so long as you can stay away from xcode.

mat_epice 4y ago

My read on it was that this person heard what their coworker has to go through, and has formed an opinion based on that. I understand that climbing Mt. Everest is fairly difficult, despite not having done it myself.

zamalek 4y ago
I find how specific coworker complains about Linux while simultaneously demanding to use it pretty contradictory. That's why I am interested in more details.
- andirk 4y ago
  I think it's fair to say that everyone in a company using very similar hardware and software makes maintenance much easier. But I also think any dev should be supported in at least _some_ Linux environment.