6 ms·

I think bail norms probably vary by jurisdiction, etc., and your assumptions are not correct. My guess is he was not required to post full collateral, i.e. the

I think bail norms probably vary by jurisdiction, etc., and your assumptions are not correct. My guess is he was not required to post full collateral, i.e. the only collateral here is the home, and then Sam, his parents, and two others posted essentially an unsecured guarantee for the full $250M, such that the government could recover up that amount from any assets held by any of those parties. While unsecured, note that the government probably has priority over any creditors and could and would seize any assets of those parties per the guarantee.

xwolfi 4y ago
So this bail is as colateralized as an Alameda loan ? This trial is starting well...
- landemva 4y ago
  I doubt there will be a trial, as too many politicians could be deposed along with tracing washed funds from US to Ukraine to FTX. He will have an unexpected medical complication or will take a plea deal.
  - cycrutchfield 4y ago
    Where do you come up with this nonsense?
    - landemva 4y ago
      SBF comments, and some political organizations returning funds. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/ftx-democrats-senate-majority-pac-to-return-bankman-fried-donations.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/ftx-democrats-senate-majorit... Without a trial and witnesses testifying, most shenanigans will remain unknown. This is why the odds favor he takes a plea or has an unexpected medical issue.
Consultant32452 4y ago
Cash bail means the accused pays the full bail amount and then gets it refunded after trial. A surety bond is basically a loan, through a bail bondsman. The bail bondsman has insurance in case you don't show up. A property bond is where the court gets a lien on your property. It sounds like this is what happened. https://money.howstuffworks.com/bail.htm https://money.howstuffworks.com/bail.htm
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  This is a mix of property (the parents home) and sureties (both parents for the full amount, and two other people for a lesser amount). Sureties don't have to be bail agents / bondsmen.
- moralestapia 4y ago
  If that's the case, I'm very curious now about how two Stanford professors have at least 250M of property under their name. Perhaps it has been acquired in the past 4 or so years? (Nothing against Stanford or professors, but academia pay peanuts and professors are usually very far from having a net worth of 9-10 figures, faaaaaaaar awaaaaaay)
  - vostok 4y ago
    This isn't super relevant, but academia in the US pays very well. This is even more so the case for law, business, engineering, medicine, and a few other areas. Obviously not relevant in the context of $250 million.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    They're mixed up in political lobbying and fundraising, it's quite possible they are independently and legally if immorally wealthy.
  - zamalek 4y ago
    Their son had this crypto exchange that was flinging money in every-which-direction.
  - 4y ago
dragonwriter 4y ago
> My guess is he was not required to post full collateral, i.e. the only collateral here is the home, and then Sam, his parents, and two others posted essentially an unsecured guarantee for the full $250M, such that the government could recover up that amount from any assets held by any of those parties Approximately this, though only SBF and his parents are on the hook for the full amount, the other two for a lesser amount (TBD in the main bail doc.)
- andirk 4y ago
  Sam probably has access to a ton of FTT. He can open a trading desk in his parent's basement and recover at least a few hundred USD. He's very bad at gambling, but if he can find a new shitcoin to arbitrage, he can leverage his FTT to new heights and be back at the top! It will be from prison, however.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    He probably has access to the several hundred million dollars worth of crypto stolen from FTX wallets around the time of the collapse, but he also probably doesn’t want to show that he does.
moralestapia 4y ago
Wait, so his bail is also "funny money"? Did he just FTXed the US government? LOL! Can't wait to read Levine's take on that.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  No I think a lien or similar on a reasonable asset isn't really funny money. No funnier than money itself really -- both are just bits of paper, backed by some guarantee the government will ensure their value.
  - moralestapia 4y ago
    >both are just bits of paper, backed by some guarantee the government will ensure their value. LOL, it really is FTX all over again!
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      Do you not understand the concept of a secured promise or bond? These things have been around long before crypto, before money was funny, and possibly before money at all. The entire finance, banking, and trading and contract systems of the modern world are built around this. The reason FTX was a scam is not because they weren't sending gold bars to investors.
      - moralestapia 4y ago
        This money is "funny" because: FTX said: "Don't worry we have collateral ... lol jk!" SBF's parents said: "Don't worry we have collateral ... lol jk!(?)" Your bit about "but fiat isn't real either" is true to some extent, and you could even go deeper and argue that nothing is real because we don't know if the universe is real or whatever. But honestly, in a practical context, there's a huge difference between: I have 100 million in the bank; source: bank statement. and I think I have 100 million in the bank; source: trust me.
        4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

xwolfi 4y ago

So this bail is as colateralized as an Alameda loan ? This trial is starting well...

landemva 4y ago
I doubt there will be a trial, as too many politicians could be deposed along with tracing washed funds from US to Ukraine to FTX. He will have an unexpected medical complication or will take a plea deal.
- cycrutchfield 4y ago
  Where do you come up with this nonsense?
  - landemva 4y ago
    SBF comments, and some political organizations returning funds. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/ftx-democrats-senate-majority-pac-to-return-bankman-fried-donations.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/ftx-democrats-senate-majorit... Without a trial and witnesses testifying, most shenanigans will remain unknown. This is why the odds favor he takes a plea or has an unexpected medical issue.

Consultant32452 4y ago

Cash bail means the accused pays the full bail amount and then gets it refunded after trial. A surety bond is basically a loan, through a bail bondsman. The bail bondsman has insurance in case you don't show up. A property bond is where the court gets a lien on your property. It sounds like this is what happened. https://money.howstuffworks.com/bail.htm https://money.howstuffworks.com/bail.htm

dragonwriter 4y ago
This is a mix of property (the parents home) and sureties (both parents for the full amount, and two other people for a lesser amount). Sureties don't have to be bail agents / bondsmen.
moralestapia 4y ago
If that's the case, I'm very curious now about how two Stanford professors have at least 250M of property under their name. Perhaps it has been acquired in the past 4 or so years? (Nothing against Stanford or professors, but academia pay peanuts and professors are usually very far from having a net worth of 9-10 figures, faaaaaaaar awaaaaaay)
- vostok 4y ago
  This isn't super relevant, but academia in the US pays very well. This is even more so the case for law, business, engineering, medicine, and a few other areas. Obviously not relevant in the context of $250 million.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  They're mixed up in political lobbying and fundraising, it's quite possible they are independently and legally if immorally wealthy.
- zamalek 4y ago
  Their son had this crypto exchange that was flinging money in every-which-direction.
- 4y ago

dragonwriter 4y ago

> My guess is he was not required to post full collateral, i.e. the only collateral here is the home, and then Sam, his parents, and two others posted essentially an unsecured guarantee for the full $250M, such that the government could recover up that amount from any assets held by any of those parties Approximately this, though only SBF and his parents are on the hook for the full amount, the other two for a lesser amount (TBD in the main bail doc.)

andirk 4y ago
Sam probably has access to a ton of FTT. He can open a trading desk in his parent's basement and recover at least a few hundred USD. He's very bad at gambling, but if he can find a new shitcoin to arbitrage, he can leverage his FTT to new heights and be back at the top! It will be from prison, however.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  He probably has access to the several hundred million dollars worth of crypto stolen from FTX wallets around the time of the collapse, but he also probably doesn’t want to show that he does.

moralestapia 4y ago

Wait, so his bail is also "funny money"? Did he just FTXed the US government? LOL! Can't wait to read Levine's take on that.

throwawaylinux 4y ago
No I think a lien or similar on a reasonable asset isn't really funny money. No funnier than money itself really -- both are just bits of paper, backed by some guarantee the government will ensure their value.
- moralestapia 4y ago
  >both are just bits of paper, backed by some guarantee the government will ensure their value. LOL, it really is FTX all over again!
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    Do you not understand the concept of a secured promise or bond? These things have been around long before crypto, before money was funny, and possibly before money at all. The entire finance, banking, and trading and contract systems of the modern world are built around this. The reason FTX was a scam is not because they weren't sending gold bars to investors.
    - moralestapia 4y ago
      This money is "funny" because: FTX said: "Don't worry we have collateral ... lol jk!" SBF's parents said: "Don't worry we have collateral ... lol jk!(?)" Your bit about "but fiat isn't real either" is true to some extent, and you could even go deeper and argue that nothing is real because we don't know if the universe is real or whatever. But honestly, in a practical context, there's a huge difference between: I have 100 million in the bank; source: bank statement. and I think I have 100 million in the bank; source: trust me.
      - 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]