5 ms·

Is Moving to Mastodon Ethical?

g42gregory 4y ago
I remember constant discussions in the last few years that went like this: "If you don't like Twitter, why don't you start your own?" And many people tried, but no one is succeeding so far. I think the reason for that is that Twitter really has no functionality, except for (and that's a BIG one) the Network Effect itself. This Network Effect works the other way as well: if you don't have it, you can't compete with Twitter. The new "microblogging services" will not have network effect by definition, and they can't get traction. Now that Elon Musk is making changes, we are again into the "If you hate Twitter, please you start your own." But I think these new efforts will go the same way as the old ones. You simply do not have the network effect to compete effectively.
- whateveracct 4y ago
  I think you vastly overstate the size a network effect has to be before you hit critical mass. Especially for interest-related things. For instance, the Haskell subreddit has 73k members. But members on Reddit isn't a good metric (I don't even think I'm one). There's typically a hundred or so users at a time. It's not huge but it works. I'm on chat servers and forums with less than 100 active users and it's plenty to spend years participating and following along.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    Look at the success of Discord where people pay for modest size chat servers.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  Maybe smaller platforms are healthier. It may be more meaningful for people to participate in smaller systems such as topic-specific forums for, say, Java programmers, or photographers, fans of some book, etc. I deleted my Twitter in 2017 as I felt it was not healthy. People mostly seem to be asserting membership in this tribe or that tribe and confuse having access to a megaphone with having something to say. If you express your whole identity consistently and everywhere with everyone online of course you are going to have conflicts with people who will sometimes be offended by something your said. (I have really frightened people in the past, for instance, by singing Frank Zappa songs) This compartmentalization (put on the hat that "I am a photographer" on the photography site) will get you much better service and help you be focused on helping other members no matter who they are. Insofar as you have a context you will work that in the context of how your attributes affect you as a photographer, how you get hassled as a photographer, what it is you see in the world as a photographer, etc. On some other forum there is a different presentation of self.
- ThatPlayer 4y ago
  Unlike the old ones, the network effect is the combined network of all ActivityPub instances, so if one of them has it, they all have it. With Tumblr having announced upcoming ActivityPub support, I think the market will soon become the "combined network of all ActivityPub" versus the "network of Twitter".
- rolenthedeep 4y ago
  For perspective, I have exactly 200 followers and 108 follows on mastodon. Interaction and engagement with my posts is higher than it ever was on Twitter, even when I had a couple thousand followers. The variety of posts in my home timeline is on par with Twitter, except the quality is higher due to a lack of algorithms promoting and hiding posts for unknowable reasons. This is a point reiterated by almost everyone who actually spends some time to understand and get involved with the platform. There are enough users on mastodon to comfortably capture new users. It's self-sufficient at this point. Whether or not any new users come from Twitter, mastodon is a success, and will likely be around for a long time. It's stable and there's enough network for anyone to jump in, given they spend a week or two to give it an honest try.
xiphias2 4y ago
It's great that nostr was on the list of competitors, as it seems like a better balance between a smart clients that compete in UX and dumb servers that compete in resilience. As it uses just a private-public keypair, it doesn't make me choose a specific server to trust with storing my identity.
cbeach 4y ago
> So I think it behooves privileged geeks like myself to help find and improve an alternate home for things like #BlackTwitter. I always suspected these attitudes were common amongst the white leftwing intelligentsia, but here it is in black and white (no pun intended). Here’s the author admitting his White Saviour complex. What causes this behaviour? Is it a form of co-dependency? Or do these white folk feel that publicly and overtly shepherding minority groups will boost their own popularity or influence? Or is it simply virtue-signalling without self-awareness? I just don’t get it.
- arcatech 4y ago
  You don’t get how some people might care about communities other than their own?
  - cbeach 4y ago
    I’m talking about the degree of elitism / superiority / technocratic urge that makes a white man feel he’s responsible for “finding a home” for black people - as if they’re not capable of making that choice themselves. This attitude is known as the soft bigotry of low expectations. I see no evidence that he asked any black person, let alone the whole black community, if they wanted Tim Bray to select a new home for them.
    - sph 4y ago
      He read some blogs and is following black-skinned people, so he knows all about black culture and has elected to be a champion of their ideals. This is the "I am not racist, I have black friends" for people that spend way too much time on Twitter.
- dm319 4y ago
  I'd say that minority (or even not-so minority in the case of women's) rights need to be defended by the majority/dominant group in order to be socially defendable. 78% supported same sex marriage in Ireland when it was legalised in 2015, and that wasn't because 78% were gay.
alanh 4y ago
[flagged]
- 40amxn40 4y ago
  [flagged]
- twohaibei 4y ago
  Respect for reading that far. I stopped when I saw thee main problems with mastodon. If those are the main problems, you know someone if trying very hard to find arguments to suit the hypothesis.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

I remember constant discussions in the last few years that went like this: "If you don't like Twitter, why don't you start your own?" And many people tried, but no one is succeeding so far. I think the reason for that is that Twitter really has no functionality, except for (and that's a BIG one) the Network Effect itself. This Network Effect works the other way as well: if you don't have it, you can't compete with Twitter. The new "microblogging services" will not have network effect by definition, and they can't get traction. Now that Elon Musk is making changes, we are again into the "If you hate Twitter, please you start your own." But I think these new efforts will go the same way as the old ones. You simply do not have the network effect to compete effectively.

whateveracct 4y ago
I think you vastly overstate the size a network effect has to be before you hit critical mass. Especially for interest-related things. For instance, the Haskell subreddit has 73k members. But members on Reddit isn't a good metric (I don't even think I'm one). There's typically a hundred or so users at a time. It's not huge but it works. I'm on chat servers and forums with less than 100 active users and it's plenty to spend years participating and following along.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  Look at the success of Discord where people pay for modest size chat servers.
PaulHoule 4y ago
Maybe smaller platforms are healthier. It may be more meaningful for people to participate in smaller systems such as topic-specific forums for, say, Java programmers, or photographers, fans of some book, etc. I deleted my Twitter in 2017 as I felt it was not healthy. People mostly seem to be asserting membership in this tribe or that tribe and confuse having access to a megaphone with having something to say. If you express your whole identity consistently and everywhere with everyone online of course you are going to have conflicts with people who will sometimes be offended by something your said. (I have really frightened people in the past, for instance, by singing Frank Zappa songs) This compartmentalization (put on the hat that "I am a photographer" on the photography site) will get you much better service and help you be focused on helping other members no matter who they are. Insofar as you have a context you will work that in the context of how your attributes affect you as a photographer, how you get hassled as a photographer, what it is you see in the world as a photographer, etc. On some other forum there is a different presentation of self.
ThatPlayer 4y ago
Unlike the old ones, the network effect is the combined network of all ActivityPub instances, so if one of them has it, they all have it. With Tumblr having announced upcoming ActivityPub support, I think the market will soon become the "combined network of all ActivityPub" versus the "network of Twitter".
rolenthedeep 4y ago
For perspective, I have exactly 200 followers and 108 follows on mastodon. Interaction and engagement with my posts is higher than it ever was on Twitter, even when I had a couple thousand followers. The variety of posts in my home timeline is on par with Twitter, except the quality is higher due to a lack of algorithms promoting and hiding posts for unknowable reasons. This is a point reiterated by almost everyone who actually spends some time to understand and get involved with the platform. There are enough users on mastodon to comfortably capture new users. It's self-sufficient at this point. Whether or not any new users come from Twitter, mastodon is a success, and will likely be around for a long time. It's stable and there's enough network for anyone to jump in, given they spend a week or two to give it an honest try.

xiphias2 4y ago

It's great that nostr was on the list of competitors, as it seems like a better balance between a smart clients that compete in UX and dumb servers that compete in resilience. As it uses just a private-public keypair, it doesn't make me choose a specific server to trust with storing my identity.

cbeach 4y ago

> So I think it behooves privileged geeks like myself to help find and improve an alternate home for things like #BlackTwitter. I always suspected these attitudes were common amongst the white leftwing intelligentsia, but here it is in black and white (no pun intended). Here’s the author admitting his White Saviour complex. What causes this behaviour? Is it a form of co-dependency? Or do these white folk feel that publicly and overtly shepherding minority groups will boost their own popularity or influence? Or is it simply virtue-signalling without self-awareness? I just don’t get it.

arcatech 4y ago
You don’t get how some people might care about communities other than their own?
- cbeach 4y ago
  I’m talking about the degree of elitism / superiority / technocratic urge that makes a white man feel he’s responsible for “finding a home” for black people - as if they’re not capable of making that choice themselves. This attitude is known as the soft bigotry of low expectations. I see no evidence that he asked any black person, let alone the whole black community, if they wanted Tim Bray to select a new home for them.
  - sph 4y ago
    He read some blogs and is following black-skinned people, so he knows all about black culture and has elected to be a champion of their ideals. This is the "I am not racist, I have black friends" for people that spend way too much time on Twitter.
dm319 4y ago
I'd say that minority (or even not-so minority in the case of women's) rights need to be defended by the majority/dominant group in order to be socially defendable. 78% supported same sex marriage in Ireland when it was legalised in 2015, and that wasn't because 78% were gay.

alanh 4y ago

[flagged]

40amxn40 4y ago
[flagged]
twohaibei 4y ago
Respect for reading that far. I stopped when I saw thee main problems with mastodon. If those are the main problems, you know someone if trying very hard to find arguments to suit the hypothesis.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]