3 ms·

We should do the one because it covers both cases. A TikTok that doesn't have the ability to do bad things isn't an issue. Focusing on TikTok pretends that it'

by 8note 4y ago

We should do the one because it covers both cases. A TikTok that doesn't have the ability to do bad things isn't an issue. Focusing on TikTok pretends that it's the only hostile actor with a large platform in <country> that needs to be handled asap You can handle Facebook and TikTok at the same time by putting in strong privacy regulations, along with all the other similar hostile actors

dieortin 4y ago
Tiktok isn’t only dangerous because of the data they harvest. It’s the epitome of algorithmic social media, which can be extremely damaging to society, and also a tool for propaganda and disinformation.
bioemerl 4y ago
I'm very skeptical that there is such a thing as a regulation which can keep a state actor with zero transparency like TikTok in check. Even if you move all of their code and mandate that they have a shell company in the United States, and you mandate that none of American data ever goes to China, they can ignore you. You validate that every request only stays in the United States? How do you validate that there's no communication between the two systems? The state they operate in is going to make whistle blowing very difficult, not ever allow proper auditing into the state apparatus which ultimately controls the company. You can administrate code, but unless you actually build that code yourself and basically understand it from the ground up with every single update, which is going to be nearly impossible, it's going to be very easy to sneak features through. The problem is, keeping this safe is going to be a herculan task, and we're just not up to it. Facebook is tame in comparison, because at the end of the day they're subject to our open media, transparency laws, corporate auditing, and all of that other fun stuff. We can reasonably pass regulations that help keep Facebook in check. We cannot reasonably pass regulations which we'll keep TikTok in check.
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  TikTok isn't a state actor. Contrary to the current American discourse, not everyone in China is a government bot.
  - yummypaint 4y ago
    The idea that government and companies could have significantly different goals and operate under different authority is seen as a very western notion in china. It isn't possible for a chinese company to directly defy the wishes of the chinese government. Jack Ma is a good case study, one of the most influential and successful businesspeople in china, and he was summarily thrown in jail for merely discussing ideas the CCP didn't like. There was no legal process, he just dropped off the grid completely, and then some time later the chinese government made ominous statements about how he was "embracing supervision."
    - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
      > is seen as a very western notion in china No, it isn't. The idea of private companies existing to make money is exactly the same in China as everywhere else. Companies talk about serving the public good (as they do in the US as well), but they really just care about the bottom line. > he was summarily thrown in jail for merely discussing ideas the CCP didn't like He wasn't thrown in jail. He was pressured to stop directly criticizing the government, after he publicly criticized China's financial regulators. Right now, TikTok faces much greater political pressures from the US government than it does from the Chinese government. It's a private company trying to make money, and trying to avoid scrutiny from both the Chinese and the US governments.
  - bioemerl 4y ago
    All companies in China are under the control of their state. TikTok is a state actor. No, not everyone in China is a state bot. However, every company has to keep at least a few party members on their board and obey state controls constantly.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      > All companies in China are under the control of their state. TikTok is a state actor. Couldn't the same be said of companies here in the US? We know the government is collecting data from US corporations. Should other countries be blocking Google, Facebook and Microsoft?
- lmm 4y ago
  > Even if you move all of their code and mandate that they have a shell company in the United States, and you mandate that none of American data ever goes to China, they can ignore you. You validate that every request only stays in the United States? How do you validate that there's no communication between the two systems? > The state they operate in is going to make whistle blowing very difficult, not ever allow proper auditing into the state apparatus which ultimately controls the company. You can have auditing and whistleblowing on the US entity (and include a promise of asylum in the whistleblowing protection), and big fines if they ever send data offshore.
autoexec 4y ago
But our government depends on those other apps spying on you and violating your privacy so that they can collect a copy of all that data for themselves. If we solved the problem with actually providing privacy protections for the American people against unwanted spying by corporations the US government would have to back to spying on Americans themselves.

by 8note 4y ago

dieortin 4y ago

Tiktok isn’t only dangerous because of the data they harvest. It’s the epitome of algorithmic social media, which can be extremely damaging to society, and also a tool for propaganda and disinformation.

bioemerl 4y ago

I'm very skeptical that there is such a thing as a regulation which can keep a state actor with zero transparency like TikTok in check. Even if you move all of their code and mandate that they have a shell company in the United States, and you mandate that none of American data ever goes to China, they can ignore you. You validate that every request only stays in the United States? How do you validate that there's no communication between the two systems? The state they operate in is going to make whistle blowing very difficult, not ever allow proper auditing into the state apparatus which ultimately controls the company. You can administrate code, but unless you actually build that code yourself and basically understand it from the ground up with every single update, which is going to be nearly impossible, it's going to be very easy to sneak features through. The problem is, keeping this safe is going to be a herculan task, and we're just not up to it. Facebook is tame in comparison, because at the end of the day they're subject to our open media, transparency laws, corporate auditing, and all of that other fun stuff. We can reasonably pass regulations that help keep Facebook in check. We cannot reasonably pass regulations which we'll keep TikTok in check.

DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
TikTok isn't a state actor. Contrary to the current American discourse, not everyone in China is a government bot.
- yummypaint 4y ago
  The idea that government and companies could have significantly different goals and operate under different authority is seen as a very western notion in china. It isn't possible for a chinese company to directly defy the wishes of the chinese government. Jack Ma is a good case study, one of the most influential and successful businesspeople in china, and he was summarily thrown in jail for merely discussing ideas the CCP didn't like. There was no legal process, he just dropped off the grid completely, and then some time later the chinese government made ominous statements about how he was "embracing supervision."
  - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
    > is seen as a very western notion in china No, it isn't. The idea of private companies existing to make money is exactly the same in China as everywhere else. Companies talk about serving the public good (as they do in the US as well), but they really just care about the bottom line. > he was summarily thrown in jail for merely discussing ideas the CCP didn't like He wasn't thrown in jail. He was pressured to stop directly criticizing the government, after he publicly criticized China's financial regulators. Right now, TikTok faces much greater political pressures from the US government than it does from the Chinese government. It's a private company trying to make money, and trying to avoid scrutiny from both the Chinese and the US governments.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  All companies in China are under the control of their state. TikTok is a state actor. No, not everyone in China is a state bot. However, every company has to keep at least a few party members on their board and obey state controls constantly.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > All companies in China are under the control of their state. TikTok is a state actor. Couldn't the same be said of companies here in the US? We know the government is collecting data from US corporations. Should other countries be blocking Google, Facebook and Microsoft?
lmm 4y ago
> Even if you move all of their code and mandate that they have a shell company in the United States, and you mandate that none of American data ever goes to China, they can ignore you. You validate that every request only stays in the United States? How do you validate that there's no communication between the two systems? > The state they operate in is going to make whistle blowing very difficult, not ever allow proper auditing into the state apparatus which ultimately controls the company. You can have auditing and whistleblowing on the US entity (and include a promise of asylum in the whistleblowing protection), and big fines if they ever send data offshore.

autoexec 4y ago

But our government depends on those other apps spying on you and violating your privacy so that they can collect a copy of all that data for themselves. If we solved the problem with actually providing privacy protections for the American people against unwanted spying by corporations the US government would have to back to spying on Americans themselves.