3 ms·

It makes you wonder how 50% goes to admin costs. That feels like a lot of overhead

esalman 4y ago
In FS2017, the overhead at my department (top 5 ECE program in the US) included the following: - Library 2% - Admin & General 9.4% - Departmental Admin 26.6% - Plant Maintenance 24% - Interest on Financed Bldgs 4.6% - Equipment Depreciation 11.6% - Building & Improv. Depreciation 11.3% - Sponsored Programs Admin & GTRC 8.4% - Student Services 2.1%
pkaye 4y ago
I was a student in a CSU (California state university) and a professor nominated me for a award from industry which was valued at $1000. To pass me the check, the university took 20% of the award!
- metadat 4y ago
  This sounds like very bad behavior, sorry this happened to you. What did the institution claim the justification was? Taking an extra cut from a student, a group who are already generally pretty poor, is peak scumbag.
  - happyjack 4y ago
    It's called indirect cost overhead. Universities take anywhere from 0-100% (yes, you read that 100% right) of money they take in.
    - amluto 4y ago
      It’s not that bad. They take 0-100% overhead on top of money charged to grants. That means they take 0-50% of the money coming in.
      - happyjack 4y ago
        I think that's really bad. I've never seen that high of overhead working private sector.
_gmax0 4y ago
I'm skeptical of the accuracy of those numbers. I feel like there's oftentimes little accountability in the nebulous academic bureaucracy. An extreme case from earlier this year, in which a university employee was caught stealing: https://www.npr.org/2022/03/29/1089525660/a-former-yale-employee-admits-she-stole-40-million-in-electronics-from-the-unive https://www.npr.org/2022/03/29/1089525660/a-former-yale-empl... How much of this happens on a per-employee basis? What is the expected value of loss if everything is tallied and reconciled?
- amluto 4y ago
  High end universities regularly mark up most expenses charged to research grants by about 75%. This is the result of negotiations between the university and the government. Nongovernmental grantors will sometimes negotiate much lower overhead. I suspect the negotiation goes “here’s $1M to a prestigious professor, and you may not touch it. We’ll give you $100k to make you feel better. Take it or leave it. By the way, if you leave it, we will happily offer the same research group $1M if they pack their bags and move to a different university.” Wise professors with grants with differing overhead schedules will, of course, allocate charges to minimize the university’s cut.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    If the donation is structured as an unrestricted gift, many universities take <5% as overhead. The nature of such gifts is that they cannot have, well, restrictions. So you can’t ask for deliverables or any other guarantees that might go along with a normal contract.

In FS2017, the overhead at my department (top 5 ECE program in the US) included the following: - Library 2% - Admin & General 9.4% - Departmental Admin 26.6% - Plant Maintenance 24% - Interest on Financed Bldgs 4.6% - Equipment Depreciation 11.6% - Building & Improv. Depreciation 11.3% - Sponsored Programs Admin & GTRC 8.4% - Student Services 2.1%

pkaye 4y ago

I was a student in a CSU (California state university) and a professor nominated me for a award from industry which was valued at $1000. To pass me the check, the university took 20% of the award!

metadat 4y ago
This sounds like very bad behavior, sorry this happened to you. What did the institution claim the justification was? Taking an extra cut from a student, a group who are already generally pretty poor, is peak scumbag.
- happyjack 4y ago
  It's called indirect cost overhead. Universities take anywhere from 0-100% (yes, you read that 100% right) of money they take in.
  - amluto 4y ago
    It’s not that bad. They take 0-100% overhead on top of money charged to grants. That means they take 0-50% of the money coming in.
    - happyjack 4y ago
      I think that's really bad. I've never seen that high of overhead working private sector.

_gmax0 4y ago

I'm skeptical of the accuracy of those numbers. I feel like there's oftentimes little accountability in the nebulous academic bureaucracy. An extreme case from earlier this year, in which a university employee was caught stealing: https://www.npr.org/2022/03/29/1089525660/a-former-yale-employee-admits-she-stole-40-million-in-electronics-from-the-unive https://www.npr.org/2022/03/29/1089525660/a-former-yale-empl... How much of this happens on a per-employee basis? What is the expected value of loss if everything is tallied and reconciled?

amluto 4y ago
High end universities regularly mark up most expenses charged to research grants by about 75%. This is the result of negotiations between the university and the government. Nongovernmental grantors will sometimes negotiate much lower overhead. I suspect the negotiation goes “here’s $1M to a prestigious professor, and you may not touch it. We’ll give you $100k to make you feel better. Take it or leave it. By the way, if you leave it, we will happily offer the same research group $1M if they pack their bags and move to a different university.” Wise professors with grants with differing overhead schedules will, of course, allocate charges to minimize the university’s cut.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  If the donation is structured as an unrestricted gift, many universities take <5% as overhead. The nature of such gifts is that they cannot have, well, restrictions. So you can’t ask for deliverables or any other guarantees that might go along with a normal contract.