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It's even more sad for kids being raised on smartphones and iPads as their only computing paradigm. If desktop OSes aren't complicated enough, there's certainly

by hbn 4y ago

It's even more sad for kids being raised on smartphones and iPads as their only computing paradigm. If desktop OSes aren't complicated enough, there's certainly no hope of you learning how one of those work with how locked down they are. There's a lot of people who got into programming from learning to make Minecraft mods or basic scripting for some game. It feels like the mobile application paradigm tightly cements the idea that all software that runs on a computer is from some big company and shan't be tampered with. And I don't think Xcode Playgrounds or various Programming Environment For Babies applications draw as much attention and spark as much imagination as learning to mod infinite lives into a game you already play, or even something as simple as modifying an ini file for a mod you found online.

ilyt 4y ago
I do vividly remember feeling of pride when as kid I edited some game files to do something funky (like swapping Red Alert Tanya weapon to tesla coil...) or managed to cheat the game via hex editor or cheat engine. Mixing "something you like" with "something you can learn" is always a winning combo.
marcellus23 4y ago
Any kid who wants to build an app for the iPhone/iPad can do it pretty easily, they just need a Mac and Xcode. With Swift Playgrounds for iPad, you don't even need a Mac. I know you mentioned it "doesn't spark as much imagination", but I'm going to strongly disagree with you there. I don't think most software engineers got started by tweaking existing software. _You_ may have started that way, but I didn't. I got into programming by seeing the kinds of apps people made for Mac and iPhone, and wanting to build those kinds of experiences.
- gdubs 4y ago
  I just want to be clear I'm not framing today's tools as "bad" or unable to spark imagination — my own kids are getting started with Scratch and it's great! But I also feel like there's some magic in the past too. Some of it's nostalgia, but there's also lessons there that are valuable.
benj111 4y ago
Well I had a BBC as a kid before progressing to pcs. The idea of programming never really occured to me. I had a book but it's idea of programming consisted of typing out an ASCII art house. I only got in to programming in my 20s when some company called canonical were giving CDs away of this thing call Linux. Point is. We have the internet now for kids to discover these things, and schools are more up on it and we have inexpensive computers and stuff for kids to play about with.

by hbn 4y ago

ilyt 4y ago

I do vividly remember feeling of pride when as kid I edited some game files to do something funky (like swapping Red Alert Tanya weapon to tesla coil...) or managed to cheat the game via hex editor or cheat engine. Mixing "something you like" with "something you can learn" is always a winning combo.

marcellus23 4y ago

Any kid who wants to build an app for the iPhone/iPad can do it pretty easily, they just need a Mac and Xcode. With Swift Playgrounds for iPad, you don't even need a Mac. I know you mentioned it "doesn't spark as much imagination", but I'm going to strongly disagree with you there. I don't think most software engineers got started by tweaking existing software. _You_ may have started that way, but I didn't. I got into programming by seeing the kinds of apps people made for Mac and iPhone, and wanting to build those kinds of experiences.

gdubs 4y ago
I just want to be clear I'm not framing today's tools as "bad" or unable to spark imagination — my own kids are getting started with Scratch and it's great! But I also feel like there's some magic in the past too. Some of it's nostalgia, but there's also lessons there that are valuable.

benj111 4y ago

Well I had a BBC as a kid before progressing to pcs. The idea of programming never really occured to me. I had a book but it's idea of programming consisted of typing out an ASCII art house. I only got in to programming in my 20s when some company called canonical were giving CDs away of this thing call Linux. Point is. We have the internet now for kids to discover these things, and schools are more up on it and we have inexpensive computers and stuff for kids to play about with.