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> To say a language such as C++ is responsible for overly complicated interfaces is just plain dumb. I don't agree with this. C++ is a massive language that v

> To say a language such as C++ is responsible for overly complicated interfaces is just plain dumb. I don't agree with this. C++ is a massive language that virtually nobody understand in full. As a result it makes it hard to know how to solve problems the best way, so people solve them the way that they learned to solve things which may not be how other people learned to solve things so what looks straightforward to one is a complicated mess to the other. And the worse part is, C++ is only getting bigger.

bitcracker 15y ago
> I don't agree with this. I also disagree. > C++ is a massive language that virtually nobody understand in full. A professor (expert in C++) told me that there is not even a formal standard of C++. I believe C++ developers make things so complicated because C++ itself is complicated. They only know C++ and hence this is the natural way they think. They believe that C++ can solve every problem (which is true, as for almost every other language) and some of them are so arrogant to claim that C++ is above everything else and that they don't need anything else. The latter could also be true, but the problem is: Whoever knows only a hammer as a tool sees every problem as a nail :-) When you are a C++ developer but also know Lisp, Python etc. then you will write your C++ code in a different way that uses better paradigms. They are provably superior because C++ itself is learning from them and copying features, see C+11: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B11 Unfortunately the horrible syntax of C++ remains. It was extended from C to C++ in such a way that it still reflects the underlying von-Neumann architecture. That makes C++ code so performant. Functional languages are not so performant because they prefer power of expression over von-Neumann compatibility. But they are catching up, see ATS in http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/which-programming-languages-are-fastest.php http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/which-programming-lan...
- Locke1689 15y ago
  A professor (expert in C++) told me that there is not even a formal standard of C++. To be fair, I'm not sure if this was a PL person or a systems person so I'm not sure how they're using the word, but there aren't formal[1] standards for almost every programming language. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_specification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_specification

bitcracker 15y ago

> I don't agree with this. I also disagree. > C++ is a massive language that virtually nobody understand in full. A professor (expert in C++) told me that there is not even a formal standard of C++. I believe C++ developers make things so complicated because C++ itself is complicated. They only know C++ and hence this is the natural way they think. They believe that C++ can solve every problem (which is true, as for almost every other language) and some of them are so arrogant to claim that C++ is above everything else and that they don't need anything else. The latter could also be true, but the problem is: Whoever knows only a hammer as a tool sees every problem as a nail :-) When you are a C++ developer but also know Lisp, Python etc. then you will write your C++ code in a different way that uses better paradigms. They are provably superior because C++ itself is learning from them and copying features, see C+11: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B11 Unfortunately the horrible syntax of C++ remains. It was extended from C to C++ in such a way that it still reflects the underlying von-Neumann architecture. That makes C++ code so performant. Functional languages are not so performant because they prefer power of expression over von-Neumann compatibility. But they are catching up, see ATS in http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/which-programming-languages-are-fastest.php http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/which-programming-lan...

Locke1689 15y ago
A professor (expert in C++) told me that there is not even a formal standard of C++. To be fair, I'm not sure if this was a PL person or a systems person so I'm not sure how they're using the word, but there aren't formal[1] standards for almost every programming language. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_specification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_specification