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This is an interesting framework, it's refreshing in that you don't need to bootstrap a whole web browser (electron) to build a user interface. I don't really

This is an interesting framework, it's refreshing in that you don't need to bootstrap a whole web browser (electron) to build a user interface. I don't really see it's use case though, mostly cli is used for either: A) Ability to run in automated environments (e.g CI) - think aws cli B) Interop, think piping data from grep to xargs C) Hacking - writing a script quick and dirty to just get a job done I'd have thought if I was investing enough time to think about user interface, I'd just build my tool in Qt/GTK/JavaFX/Electron etc Though I can see the argument that if I was building an app with keybinds as controls rather than mouse primarly, probably a framework like this would be the way to go.

almostjson 4y ago
The uses for the terminal outlined are pretty limited. These are kind of the use cases I would expect from an average use that runs scripts or does occasional scripting work. It doesn’t really take into account more advanced users who do practically live in the terminal and do all the things outlined in the article (use a file browser from within a terminal) The target users here are pretty clearly them. It’s pretty hard to make usable tuis because the libraries kinda suck or are ancient - this project seems to be looking to change that. I’d even argue that the reason more people don’t use TUIs as much as GUIs is because TUIs aren’t always as intuitive or user friendly. Hopefully this helps that and makes them easier to build usable intuitive guis
vageli 4y ago
Have you ever heard of the curses library? There are use cases where you want to provide a graphical interface of sorts to a cli program. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_(programming_library) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_(programming_library)
__MatrixMan__ 4y ago
I spend a lot of time with k9s, a TUI, and if there's a browser based or native GUI version, I don't care. Terminals provide a uniform experience everywhere, more or less, and they compose better than browser apps. I can run tmux in asciinema and from there I can ssh elsewhere and use k9s. fzf and my zsh history make it so that it requires a few keystrokes to do anything (contrast this with being at the mercy of several conflicting designer opinions). A bunch of browser tabs is a comparatively clunky experience. If web or native GUI apps interoperate, it's because their authors had a conversation. Terminal apps interoperate by accident.
jrmg 4y ago
Though I can see the argument that if I was building an app with keybinds as controls rather than mouse primarly, probably a framework like this would be the way to go. Those old terminal apps that used to be used in banks, car hire places, airports, pharmacies and the like were _extremely efficient_ to use when you got to know them. Like, anything could be done with a few muscle-memory keystrokes. I always think of them when I’m in a line and an employee is busy peering and mousing around. I’m not sure how you could convince a company to go back to something like that though - it just _seems_ so unintuitively unapproachable at first. Maybe if you got a few high profile clients and they could publish how much more efficient they were (presuming they were)?
leejoramo 4y ago
I am someone who used micro-computers such as TRS-80, Apple ][, CP/M and early MS-DOS PC's. I used VisiCalc, MultiPlan, the original MS Word, dBase and many more. One of the most significant pain points with such apps was the lack of stand UI and keyboard conventions. One of the revolutions of the Macintosh was not just the GUI and Mouse, but the standard visual UI and keyboard shortcuts. Borland's Turbo Vision almost got us these features for TUI, but it was too late. I am glad to see people taking another crack at it. So let's make this TUI consistent with the conventions of your preferred GUI. I personally prefer macOS, but I am currently logged into to Windows 10 and KDE Neon. I spend most of my day in VSCode, with lets me configure it any way I want to.
troyvit 4y ago
I worked for a company that needed a bunch of tools developed quickly for internal support and implementation teams. We didn't have the authority or the time to build many web apps but it was super easy to set up a git repo with a bunch of cli apps for the teams to use. Everybody picked it up pretty quickly and felt pretty cool using the terminal to accomplish awesome things.

almostjson 4y ago

The uses for the terminal outlined are pretty limited. These are kind of the use cases I would expect from an average use that runs scripts or does occasional scripting work. It doesn’t really take into account more advanced users who do practically live in the terminal and do all the things outlined in the article (use a file browser from within a terminal) The target users here are pretty clearly them. It’s pretty hard to make usable tuis because the libraries kinda suck or are ancient - this project seems to be looking to change that. I’d even argue that the reason more people don’t use TUIs as much as GUIs is because TUIs aren’t always as intuitive or user friendly. Hopefully this helps that and makes them easier to build usable intuitive guis

vageli 4y ago

Have you ever heard of the curses library? There are use cases where you want to provide a graphical interface of sorts to a cli program. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_(programming_library) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_(programming_library)

__MatrixMan__ 4y ago

I spend a lot of time with k9s, a TUI, and if there's a browser based or native GUI version, I don't care. Terminals provide a uniform experience everywhere, more or less, and they compose better than browser apps. I can run tmux in asciinema and from there I can ssh elsewhere and use k9s. fzf and my zsh history make it so that it requires a few keystrokes to do anything (contrast this with being at the mercy of several conflicting designer opinions). A bunch of browser tabs is a comparatively clunky experience. If web or native GUI apps interoperate, it's because their authors had a conversation. Terminal apps interoperate by accident.

jrmg 4y ago

Though I can see the argument that if I was building an app with keybinds as controls rather than mouse primarly, probably a framework like this would be the way to go. Those old terminal apps that used to be used in banks, car hire places, airports, pharmacies and the like were _extremely efficient_ to use when you got to know them. Like, anything could be done with a few muscle-memory keystrokes. I always think of them when I’m in a line and an employee is busy peering and mousing around. I’m not sure how you could convince a company to go back to something like that though - it just _seems_ so unintuitively unapproachable at first. Maybe if you got a few high profile clients and they could publish how much more efficient they were (presuming they were)?

leejoramo 4y ago

I am someone who used micro-computers such as TRS-80, Apple ][, CP/M and early MS-DOS PC's. I used VisiCalc, MultiPlan, the original MS Word, dBase and many more. One of the most significant pain points with such apps was the lack of stand UI and keyboard conventions. One of the revolutions of the Macintosh was not just the GUI and Mouse, but the standard visual UI and keyboard shortcuts. Borland's Turbo Vision almost got us these features for TUI, but it was too late. I am glad to see people taking another crack at it. So let's make this TUI consistent with the conventions of your preferred GUI. I personally prefer macOS, but I am currently logged into to Windows 10 and KDE Neon. I spend most of my day in VSCode, with lets me configure it any way I want to.

troyvit 4y ago

I worked for a company that needed a bunch of tools developed quickly for internal support and implementation teams. We didn't have the authority or the time to build many web apps but it was super easy to set up a git repo with a bunch of cli apps for the teams to use. Everybody picked it up pretty quickly and felt pretty cool using the terminal to accomplish awesome things.