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You skipped a critical step between G and H which seems to be overlaying skin color as an approximation for current social status. Edit: Though point taken tha

You skipped a critical step between G and H which seems to be overlaying skin color as an approximation for current social status. Edit: Though point taken that isn’t the case now with the high school policy. It does seem to be, however, a held sentiment.

HDThoreaun 4y ago
Even lebron James has to deal with people calling him the n word. Diversity is about more than social status.
- vjulian 4y ago
  But is skin color an effective, useful, or correct overlay or proxy? What are the downsides? What are the alternatives? Skin color differences in a group = diversity is perplexing to many and offensive to others, nor does it seem to logically stand up to scrutiny.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    There are a few ways to look at why schools value diversity. As the other child comment points out, Lebron clearly is more privileged than most white people, but that doesn't mean he hasn't experienced things that no white person has. Certainly some of the diversity push is about giving disadvantaged students an equalizing advantage, but a large part of the push is because schools legitimately believe having different perspectives is advantageous. And make no mistake, black people do have very different experiences, and therefore perspectives, than white people in this country. Not just because they're discriminated against either, they have a unique cultural perspective/identity that may be valuable for other students to interact with. I do think it's unfortunate that cultural groups have largely coalesced around race in this country, but that's the reality, and it won't change if the groups don't interact with each other.
    - vjulian 4y ago
      The view that “cultural groups have largely coalesced around race in this country, but that's the reality” is precisely the question. Is that the best and most effective proxy for population segmentation and policy-making? Many would argue that it isn’t. Regardless, what we can say with certainty is that it isn’t evaluated. I’m not arguing against diversity nor skin-color prejudice in America, I’m raising the question of how we best define diversity and associated ramifications.
      - HDThoreaun 4y ago
        Definitely a big question, and I don't know much about sociology so don't have any data. I will say though that using race as a signal for diversity has a few advantages. First it's a relatively objective metric that can't really be faked. Income also falls into that category, but my experience is that I grew up in a pretty diverse area, my schools growing up had about equal numbers of white, black, latino, and asian people, all from widely different economic groups. And the social groups were much, much more along racial lines than economic ones. Even leaving my home that was my experience in university and after. I'm not going to try to get into diagnosing why that is, it's just something I've consistently noticed, and it leads me to believe that racial groups do have their own unique cultural perspective that transcends income. In the end it's tough for me to see any good diversity metrics beyond income and race, and it seems to me they are both valid and not necessarily related. If you value diversity you should probably aim to have both economic and racial diversity. I've also noticed that many of the people claiming that race is a bad diversity metric have minimal experience interacting with different racial groups which leads me to believe it is largely from a place of ignorance or even bad faith.
        vjulian 4y ago
        While I hold a US passport and live in the US, I can’t claim a background that is solidly from the US. In my experience in the US, location matters and general culture varies (surprisingly) widely. I would find it hard to believe that a skin-color segmentation is effective across the entire population. In my limited experience not in sociology but in running consumer segmentations as a management consultant years back, the idea of a single, best segmentation for all the USA does seem suspect. My personal experience in the US is relatively low in socioeconomic diversity but high in skin-color diversity (lots of educated, well to do people from all over the world who all think more or less similarly). “Race” or specifically European-ancestry versus former slaves is the main, historical dichotomy in the US. But well-to-do “Asians”, various people from the continent of Asia, people from other continents, and mixing tends to dilute the historical dichotomy. But the mindset persists. To me it seems as though skin-color diversity feels good to certain (perhaps many) Americans, but it isn’t necessarily logical. (Editing for typos)
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  You think LeBron is more or less privileged than some poor white kid from Appalachia?
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    I think diversity is about more than social status.
    - vjulian 4y ago
      The US universities might do well by forcibly mixing people of different political stripes. Red and blue…makes purple?
      - HDThoreaun 4y ago
        Too easy to fake
    - RestlessMind 4y ago
      Gee, why is it then that we are concerned only about skin color and gender?
      - HDThoreaun 4y ago
        Other forms of diversity are impossible to measure objectively through a college application.
        RestlessMind 4y ago
        False. Economic status can easily be measured. In fact, college admissions process has the entire financial picture of a candidate thanks to FAFSA. Wonder why colleges don't publish stats of how many kids are admitted from, say, each quintile of wealth or income. I guess that would be an inconvenient stat to expose.

HDThoreaun 4y ago

Even lebron James has to deal with people calling him the n word. Diversity is about more than social status.

vjulian 4y ago
But is skin color an effective, useful, or correct overlay or proxy? What are the downsides? What are the alternatives? Skin color differences in a group = diversity is perplexing to many and offensive to others, nor does it seem to logically stand up to scrutiny.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  There are a few ways to look at why schools value diversity. As the other child comment points out, Lebron clearly is more privileged than most white people, but that doesn't mean he hasn't experienced things that no white person has. Certainly some of the diversity push is about giving disadvantaged students an equalizing advantage, but a large part of the push is because schools legitimately believe having different perspectives is advantageous. And make no mistake, black people do have very different experiences, and therefore perspectives, than white people in this country. Not just because they're discriminated against either, they have a unique cultural perspective/identity that may be valuable for other students to interact with. I do think it's unfortunate that cultural groups have largely coalesced around race in this country, but that's the reality, and it won't change if the groups don't interact with each other.
  - vjulian 4y ago
    The view that “cultural groups have largely coalesced around race in this country, but that's the reality” is precisely the question. Is that the best and most effective proxy for population segmentation and policy-making? Many would argue that it isn’t. Regardless, what we can say with certainty is that it isn’t evaluated. I’m not arguing against diversity nor skin-color prejudice in America, I’m raising the question of how we best define diversity and associated ramifications.
    - HDThoreaun 4y ago
      Definitely a big question, and I don't know much about sociology so don't have any data. I will say though that using race as a signal for diversity has a few advantages. First it's a relatively objective metric that can't really be faked. Income also falls into that category, but my experience is that I grew up in a pretty diverse area, my schools growing up had about equal numbers of white, black, latino, and asian people, all from widely different economic groups. And the social groups were much, much more along racial lines than economic ones. Even leaving my home that was my experience in university and after. I'm not going to try to get into diagnosing why that is, it's just something I've consistently noticed, and it leads me to believe that racial groups do have their own unique cultural perspective that transcends income. In the end it's tough for me to see any good diversity metrics beyond income and race, and it seems to me they are both valid and not necessarily related. If you value diversity you should probably aim to have both economic and racial diversity. I've also noticed that many of the people claiming that race is a bad diversity metric have minimal experience interacting with different racial groups which leads me to believe it is largely from a place of ignorance or even bad faith.
      - vjulian 4y ago
        While I hold a US passport and live in the US, I can’t claim a background that is solidly from the US. In my experience in the US, location matters and general culture varies (surprisingly) widely. I would find it hard to believe that a skin-color segmentation is effective across the entire population. In my limited experience not in sociology but in running consumer segmentations as a management consultant years back, the idea of a single, best segmentation for all the USA does seem suspect. My personal experience in the US is relatively low in socioeconomic diversity but high in skin-color diversity (lots of educated, well to do people from all over the world who all think more or less similarly). “Race” or specifically European-ancestry versus former slaves is the main, historical dichotomy in the US. But well-to-do “Asians”, various people from the continent of Asia, people from other continents, and mixing tends to dilute the historical dichotomy. But the mindset persists. To me it seems as though skin-color diversity feels good to certain (perhaps many) Americans, but it isn’t necessarily logical. (Editing for typos)
RestlessMind 4y ago
You think LeBron is more or less privileged than some poor white kid from Appalachia?
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  I think diversity is about more than social status.
  - vjulian 4y ago
    The US universities might do well by forcibly mixing people of different political stripes. Red and blue…makes purple?
    - HDThoreaun 4y ago
      Too easy to fake
  - RestlessMind 4y ago
    Gee, why is it then that we are concerned only about skin color and gender?
    - HDThoreaun 4y ago
      Other forms of diversity are impossible to measure objectively through a college application.
      - RestlessMind 4y ago
        False. Economic status can easily be measured. In fact, college admissions process has the entire financial picture of a candidate thanks to FAFSA. Wonder why colleges don't publish stats of how many kids are admitted from, say, each quintile of wealth or income. I guess that would be an inconvenient stat to expose.