6 ms·

Of course what follows is anecdotal, but my first dabble in teaching at a college level (which is something I very much enjoyed) was for a entry level class in

by bryanh 15y ago

Of course what follows is anecdotal, but my first dabble in teaching at a college level (which is something I very much enjoyed) was for a entry level class in Finance. About 60 students or so in a class. Now, I might have been a lousy teacher, or some of my students could not have cared less about introductory Financial concepts, but what I witnessed between my students and my colleagues' made me very skeptical of any value a college degree has. This was simple math, simple concepts and even simpler recitation of various facts. But I suppose that can be excused, some people just don't jive with such things, but worse: A large majority of students were numbingly apathetic and put forth 0 effort, but still came crawling back after tests asking for extra credit or mulligans. But of course, some students were wonderfully engaged as well. So, in summary, I guess I wouldn't be surprised at a paper like that passing at university. Students turn that crap in all the time and they still somehow graduate.

makmanalp 15y ago
You must understand that half of the students in an intro level class are there because a) They don't know what the hell they want to do so they picked a class. b) They have to fulfill some requirement. In the case of a), this happens because colleges are idiots and think that taking whole classes are a good way of going about figuring out what you want to do with your college education. What actually happens is the student takes the class, notices that they don't like the subject, and is disinterested for the rest of a whole term, even though they are still graded and can not switch. In the case of b), some bigwig university rector decided that x courses in subject y must be taken by students of major z. Z students of course blow the class off because they don't want to take it. Professors know this, and don't care much if Z students learn anything anyway. They want to focus on the students that are actually going to major in the subject of y. No one stands up to the rector and everyone takes the path of least friction. Solution: Have some goddamn flexibility. Don't enforce a strict ordering when taking classes. Don't force students into a single required class as much as possible. Instead say "must take two of these 5 classes". Have your majors defined this way also: Eg. Computer Science is 1 intro, 3 theory, 2 low level, 2 software engineering and design, 1 social issues class and 2 major projects. You can spell out specific classes that MUST be taken afterwards. Have quarters instead of semesters so that classes "die fast" and students can focus more on fewer subjects. This ends up being very intensive but there are more breaks. Allow students to fail 3 times without penalty, so they can experiment with classes out of their comfort zone, like grad classes or classes from a different major altogether. Have freshman year multidisciplinary problem solving seminars so that students have some idea of how project work an research happens, and what subjects they are interested in. My school did most of this for a very long time and the students loved it. They almost rioted when there was talk of changing this system.
- loganfrederick 15y ago
  Out of curiosity, where did you attend?
  - makmanalp 15y ago
    http://www.wpi.edu/ http://www.wpi.edu/ , just a small sized tech school in the Northeast US.
- JoeAltmaier 15y ago
  RIght. Never require students to demonstrate they can learn something unfun or uninteresting. Because they will never have to do that in real life! How dare they make that part of getting a degree - why it makes a mockery of what a degree means! Which is, I guess, evidence of 4 years tenure in a dormitory?

by bryanh 15y ago

makmanalp 15y ago

You must understand that half of the students in an intro level class are there because a) They don't know what the hell they want to do so they picked a class. b) They have to fulfill some requirement. In the case of a), this happens because colleges are idiots and think that taking whole classes are a good way of going about figuring out what you want to do with your college education. What actually happens is the student takes the class, notices that they don't like the subject, and is disinterested for the rest of a whole term, even though they are still graded and can not switch. In the case of b), some bigwig university rector decided that x courses in subject y must be taken by students of major z. Z students of course blow the class off because they don't want to take it. Professors know this, and don't care much if Z students learn anything anyway. They want to focus on the students that are actually going to major in the subject of y. No one stands up to the rector and everyone takes the path of least friction. Solution: Have some goddamn flexibility. Don't enforce a strict ordering when taking classes. Don't force students into a single required class as much as possible. Instead say "must take two of these 5 classes". Have your majors defined this way also: Eg. Computer Science is 1 intro, 3 theory, 2 low level, 2 software engineering and design, 1 social issues class and 2 major projects. You can spell out specific classes that MUST be taken afterwards. Have quarters instead of semesters so that classes "die fast" and students can focus more on fewer subjects. This ends up being very intensive but there are more breaks. Allow students to fail 3 times without penalty, so they can experiment with classes out of their comfort zone, like grad classes or classes from a different major altogether. Have freshman year multidisciplinary problem solving seminars so that students have some idea of how project work an research happens, and what subjects they are interested in. My school did most of this for a very long time and the students loved it. They almost rioted when there was talk of changing this system.

loganfrederick 15y ago
Out of curiosity, where did you attend?
- makmanalp 15y ago
  http://www.wpi.edu/ http://www.wpi.edu/ , just a small sized tech school in the Northeast US.
JoeAltmaier 15y ago
RIght. Never require students to demonstrate they can learn something unfun or uninteresting. Because they will never have to do that in real life! How dare they make that part of getting a degree - why it makes a mockery of what a degree means! Which is, I guess, evidence of 4 years tenure in a dormitory?